Kubrick

by **Pants Elk** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:01 am

James writes: "I strongly recommend everyone read those three articles if they desire to know more about where Stanley Kubrick was coming from in his movie Eyes Wide Shut. The fist article documents the fact that Stanley Kubrick was a long-time subscriber to the Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. quarterly publication Fidelio ..." James, the article is actually posted above, further back in the thread. What I think we need is some kind of editing on this thread, collating the links, synthesising the "original" thinking (some of which is "my own"), and weeding out the (very enjoyable) distractions. I haven't the smarts to post screen grabs, but I'm working on it. First choice would be the eye on Dr Bill's back ...

by **hanshan** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:38 am

tx monstro for the TGOV connnect; saw it performed in regional theatre not too many years ago; wonderful to see the ode to sylvia oh, ok - that James Redford aka Tetrahedron Omega, Count Lithium von Chloride, and Jamie Michelle. will check the St. Stephen - the 'first christian martyr' essay; pdfs are a bit much on this macheen ie: <a href="http://www.antiochian.org/saint_stephen" target="top">www.antiochian.org/saint_stephen</a> <a href="http://www.mkheritage.co.uk/bpt/Women/wrensOS.html" target="top">The Women of Bletchley Park</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>These pages outline the often untold story of the work of the women at Bletchley Park. It is not often mentioned that it was in fact women who who made up the majority of personnel who worked there in the Second World War. The pages also contain extracts from letters sent in by some of the Wrens who were at Bletchley Park and Bombe outstations. Some of the reminiscences are poignant, some are amusing and some are just illustrative of what their life was like, both working and domestic. These narratives have been collected under the names of the various outstations - Eastcote, Stanmore etc. <hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.aquq77.dsl.pipex.com/swehs/docs/news16su.html" target="top">BLETCHLEY PARK CODE BREAKING</a> by Peter Lamb and David Whitehead <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Significance_of_Venona" target="top"><div style="text-align:center">Venona</div></a> <div style="text-align:center">"The VENONA documents, and the extent of their significance, were not made public until 1995. They show, rather unsurprisingly, that the US was being spied upon by the Soviet Union as early as 1942, just as we were spying on the Soviet Union. Exaggerated claims by conservative authors willfully misinterpret VENONA to the wild extent that the Office of Strategic Services, the predecessor to the CIA, housed at one point or another between fifteen and twenty Soviet spies, and that the War Production Board, the Board of Economic Warfare, the Office of the Coordinator of Inter-American Affairs and the Office of War Information, included at least half a dozen Soviet sources each among their employees. The truth lies in the fact that many American names appeared in the Soviet cables, and most of them were no more guilty of espionage than was Hopalong Cassidy. The decision to keep Venona secret and restrict knowledge of it within the government was made by senior Army officers in consultation with the FBI and CIA. The CIA was not made an active partner until 1952. Army Chief of Staff Omar Bradley, concerned about the White House's history of leaking sensitive information, decided to deny President Truman direct knowledge of the project. The president received the substance of the material only through FBI, Justice Department and CIA reports on counterintelligence and intelligence matters. He was not told the material came from decoded Soviet ciphers. Truman had been distrustful of J. Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI, and suspected the reports were exaggerated for political purposes, which they were. The decision to not inform the President about the Project is unremarkable, given the fact that this was made by career bureaucrats, not elected legislators or political appointees. Debates over the extent of Soviet espionage in the United States were polarized by the hysteria of the post-war Red Scare. Anti-Communists suspected that just about everyone they disagreed with was a spy of some sort. Those who criticized the government's loyalty campaign as an overreaction, on the other hand, saw clearly the widespread abuse of power, and lamented the many thousands that ended up on the blacklist, their professional lives destroyed.</div> emphasis added very amusing, rain ; the synchro balloons Look out of any window any morning, any evening, any day Maybe the sun is shining birds are winging or rain is falling from a heavy sky - What do you want me to do, to do for you to see you through? this is all a dream we dreamed one afternoon long ago Walk out of any doorway feel your way, feel your way like the day before Maybe you'll find direction around some corner where it's been waiting to meet you - What do you want me to do, to watch for you while you're sleeping? Well please don't be surprised when you find me dreaming too Look into any eyes you find by you, you can see clear through to another day I know it's been seen before through other eyes on other days while going home -- What do you want me to do, to do for you to see you through? It's all a dream we dreamed one afternoon long ago Walk into splintered sunlight Inch your way through dead dreams to another land Maybe you're tired and broken Your tongue is twisted with words half spoken and thoughts unclear What do you want me to do to do for you to see you through A box of rain will ease the pain and love will see you through Just a box of rain - wind and water - Believe it if you need it, if you don't just pass it on Sun and shower - Wind and rain - in and out the window like a moth before a flame It's just a box of rain I don't know who put it there Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare But it's just a box of rain or a ribbon for your hair Such a long long time to be gone and a short time to be there  <img src="http://harmony.kieding.org/frac1/rainbowbridge.jpg" style="border:0;"/> ....

by **Col Quisp** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:52 pm

This is too much! I just read the original screenplay this morning (OK, maybe I'm getting obsessive!). In the original screenplay, Somerton is called Bletchly Manor. <a href="http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0085.html">www.visual-memory.co.uk/a.../0085.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr> INT CAB BILL looking out for the house. Up ahead, he sees a stretch-limo with darkened windows pulling into a drive protected by iron gates flanked by two gatehouses. As they drive slowly past the gates, BILL sees a sign that says, 'Bletchly Manor'.<hr></blockquote> I think we've cracked the code, friends.

by **morganwolf** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:06 pm

Note to Col Quisp -- fabulous set of posts. Nice work! I enjoyed reading your analysis of class hierarchy among the EWS women. Nuala's name has been bugging me lately. Thanks for looking it up. Freaaaaaaaky. And that other model's comment about the hanky - nice catch! Are we to believe that Bill happened to be on 5th Ave just as this model got something in her eye? Deeper message, methinks. Also - the link between Milich and Joe McCarthy was wonderful. Far out!!!!! As for this comment - "These women have all the REAL power (spiritual). The men are just play-acting at the ritual, and there would be nothing gained without the sex-magick and Mandy's self-sacrifice. The men have artificial power (money)." I agree with you, and this is a problem with profit-driven, patriarchal societies that do not value female spiritual power unless/until they can subvert it to their own ends. The worship of a male god who grants exclusive power to men over the women in their domain is convenient. Ever wonder why so much sexual abuse occurs under monotheistic fundamentalism? FYI - I cannot remember where I read this but I know that the CIA employed witches to read Tarot cards and such, in their attempts to gain information about the future success/failure of a given project. Last - I wouldn't worry about 'doubling' or 'repetition' of posts/points/themes/motifs, etc. It makes perfect sense in the context of this thread. As in .... <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The term “symphonic structure” alludes to the pattern of repetition, points of convergence, and progressive change that ostensibly characterize Eyes Wide Shut and After Hours. Through their exploitation of this “symphonic structure,” it is apparent that Kubrick and Scorsese explicitly share similarities in their organizing principles. Through repetition, characters are given an opportunity for catharsis. Whether they fail or succeed is debatable, but the repetitive structure of their efforts wonderfully parallels the Freudian struggle for self-remedy.<hr></blockquote> Gawd. Muchas gracias for that gem, Hanshan! Brilliant. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Freud asserts that perhaps the most uncanny feeling is created when the audience/reader is uncertain “whether a particular figure in the story is a human being or an automaton” <hr></blockquote> Eeek. I felt exactly this way when Mandy was just lying there. When she finally speaks, her voice is robotic; she appears to be struggling to give Dr. Bill 'the right answers.' Initially, I (like the naive Dr. Bill) attributed all of this to the drug reaction (we only Victor's word for what happened to her). Seems likely that Mandy is under the influence of something more insidious than a speedball. Wonderful thread. I'm going to download all relevant links and will sort them out as best I can, Pants. I'll repost those in the data dump, where I've already started an EWS thread. Anyone else is welcome to add their reference files to that post.

by **morganwolf** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:08 pm

SCREAM! No shit! I'm blown away. Totally. Now I know why there are two versions of the screenplay.

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:17 pm

Bletchly Manor/Bletchley Park is a huge find. Thanks. Morganwolf, no need to copy the links here to datadump. I'm going to be moving the entire thread over there when it's time to archive.

by **morganwolf** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:28 pm

Thanks, Jeff. So much valuable info!

by **Pants Elk** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:11 pm

*HUSHED GOLF APPLAUSE* OH yeah.

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:38 pm

Can't find this in the original script, and I don't think it's been mentioned yet. I just transcribed it from the DVD. Bill arrives home and finds Alice helping their daughter with her homework at the kitchen table. Bill observes the domestic scene. Alice smiles at him, all appears well. But his face clouds and we hear his wife's tearful words: "And there were all these other people around us, hundreds of them everywhere. And everyone was fucking, and - then I was fucking other men. So many - I don't know how many I was with."  A surface reading of the film may assume this is his jealous fantasy. After what we've learned I don't think that's the most reasonable accounting for it. Alice sounds like she's describing a painful and inexplicable recovered memory, and Bill looks like he's remembering her telling it, and beginning to comprehend how deep it goes.

by **Pants Elk** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:41 pm

From the original script: NUALA N..u..a..l..a. BILL Is that a Hawaiian name? NUALA  No, it's an agency name. (PS Jeff - you don't have to transcribe the script - the link is buried up there somewhere) EDIT: Just remembered this random observation: the smooth Hungarian Szabo tries to tempt Alice upstair to see Zeigler's "sculpture gallery". We get to see this "sculpture gallery" shortly after - it's the bathroom, where the hooker is the "lifeless" sculpture. And Renaissance - that's rebirth, right? Under Dr Bill's brilliant care (just looking, touching, and listening, and talking - what kind of doctor is this?) the hooker is reborn: a real Renaissance sculpture! ANOTHER FREAKING EDIT, WHILE I REMEMBER: In the Hungarian/American seduction scene, Alice is distictly weirded-out, not at all the confident woman we saw in the previous scene. She plays a kind of Marilyn Monroe "ickle girlie". At the end of the scene, she tells us she's had way too much Champagne; ie that she's drunk. But the smooth Hungarian drank most of her glass, right? She's had a couple sips - et voilà - she's totally out of her box. I don't think so. The Hungarian is the silver-voiced hypnotist, putting her under. It doesn't quite work, though ... not this time ... OH SHIT - THIS JUST IN: And Szabo's name, mirrored, is the Masonic password Boaz ... From the "youreyeswideshut" site: The password of the 1st degree, or the 'Entered Apprentice' degree is 'Boaz'. I don't think the Szabo/Boaz connection is made on this site, though ... I'm going to see if I can find the other passwords (given on that site) mirrored in the movie ... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pantselk>Pants Elk</A> at: 12/10/05 12:06 pm

by **hanshan** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:51 pm

ehhh, through the looking glass we go been too many years since last viewed the film & it's become clear from the in-depth recreation of scenes (reported here) that I haven't seen the entire film; hhmmmm - memory blanks ? missing times? think the prosaic exegesis is that I tuned in when the film was already in progress... certainly worth re-viewing dry,Pants Elk, very,very dry (teehee) <img src="http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lg08.gif" style="border:0;"/> ....

by **jamesredford** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:09 pm

Pants Elk wrote: "" James writes: "I strongly recommend everyone read those three articles if they desire to know more about where Stanley Kubrick was coming from in his movie Eyes Wide Shut. The fist article documents the fact that Stanley Kubrick was a long-time subscriber to the Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. quarterly publication Fidelio ..." James, the article is actually posted above, further back in the thread. What I think we need is some kind of editing on this thread, collating the links, synthesising the "original" thinking (some of which is "my own"), and weeding out the (very enjoyable) distractions. I haven't the smarts to post screen grabs, but I'm working on it. First choice would be the eye on Dr Bill's back ... "" Thank you. I didn't read all the posts this thread. What I originally posted above is simply two old posts of mine combined: Re:War of the Worlds « Reply #10 on: June 29, 2005, 06:23:01 am » Re:War of the Worlds « Reply #15 on: June 30, 2005, 12:11:48 am » http://anti-state.com/forum/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=14243;start=0 -- James Redford, jrredford@yahoo.com, http://www.geocities.com/vonchloride/an ... -jesus.pdf

by **Sweejak** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:48 pm

The screenplay is worth reading, especially the voice overs. There are many changes from the the finished film, like Alice's dream. Also some of the things we've been finding are confirmed, for instance Domino is a sociology student. DOMINO Oh, look, you don't have to... BILL No, that's all right, he says. DOMINO Really. It's okay. BILL No, no. Listen, we need more good sociologists. They both laugh.

by **Bob Hekan** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:02 pm

Is any one familiar with the Toynbee tiles ? <a href="http://www.toynbee.net/">www.toynbee.net/</a> <------ Mysterious tiles embedded in roads around the country in major cities that say the following...... Toynbee Ideas in Kubricks 2001 Resurect Dead On Planet Jupiter I'm from Cleveland and there are two there one downtown. There is about a dozen in New York some In Kansas City Los Angelas Chicago They're all over. They all look just about the same looking like a work done by hand by sonme one in arts and crafts. No one knows how these things got embedded in asphalt in the middle of intersections without some road crew noticing or a cop on the beat or a pedestrian walking. Add the plaques to the conversation

by **Project Willow** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:37 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The mirror-sex scene: Alice was staring at herself in the mirror for who knows how long before Bill tries to initiate sex with her. She keeps looking back at the mirror, and looks depressed, detached, or disgusted, I can't tell. She seems to "snap" into a different personality after peeing into the mirror. She even says "it's not the pot," that is making her bitch out Bill for flirting with the models. She becomes completely irrational, and then has a "laughing fit." Looks like alters, to me. Bill acts as if he's seen this all before; it's something he's used to.<hr></blockquote> col quisp.. amazing connections. I have always interpreted the above scene that way. Mirrors were used extensively in programming, (I could go on for awhile mentioning specific uses and effects.) One use of the mirror was to re-enforce the "putting away", or the level of dissociation of cult/mc active alters and to solidify the presence of "normal world" or day to day alters. I mean, most of us have to look in the mirror to get ready in the morning. I could post the programming phrase that goes along with this daily routine, but I don't want to trigger readers here. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>A surface reading of the film may assume this is his jealous fantasy. After what we've learned I don't think that's the most reasonable accounting for it. Alice sounds like she's describing a painful and inexplicable recovered memory, and Bill looks like he's remembering her telling it, and beginning to comprehend how deep it goes.<hr></blockquote> Jeff, doesn't he find actual evidence at one point, doesn't he find her mask at the end of the film? Or does she find his? Sorry, I haven't seen it in awhile, but after reading all of this I want to see it again. It's just so damn triggering.

Kubrick

Tangled Thread

re: For beauty lives with kindness...

Bletchley Park

Doubling, repetition and doppelgangers!

RE: Bletchley Park

Re: RE: Bletchley Park

Re: RE: Bletchley Park

Re: RE: Bletchley Park

Alice's voice over

More on Nuala ... and Szabo

re: re-covers

Re:Tangled Thread

Re: re: re-covers

the Toynbee tiles and Stanly Kubrick.

mc moments

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