"Horror Fans" for Dummies

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Re: re:horror

Postby Gouda » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:23 am

Yes, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Picnic at Hanging Rock</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. Man, truly haunting because of its striking disparities and its languorous mixture of mystery and dread. The contrasts add a lot to it: overwhelming sadness is mixed with a joyous levity; and there is this tremendous, sustained aching anxiety haunting a beautiful, carefree sunny day. A masterpiece. (Sorry for the "film review" shtick resembling a Kundera novel - but the film really, really is haunting.)<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Ice Storm</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> is another, but it ain't no sunny day. <br><br>I've never, ever experienced that mythic post-horror film syndrome of not being able to sleep at night, or a film giving me nightmares, but <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Exorcist</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> comes close. <br><br>So did the inauguration of W in 2000. (Thinking of the opening sequence of <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>F-911</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->: Michael Moore's best turn, for a moment, in the horror genre.) <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gouda@rigorousintuition>Gouda</A> at: 8/23/06 5:42 am<br></i>
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Re: re:horror

Postby professorpan » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:30 pm

Crap, EZBoard ate my friggin' post. <br><br>I'm a fan of horror, and have enjoyed the genre since I was a kid. I thank my parents for resisting the warnings of my relatives ("If you let him read/watch that stuff it's gonna warp him!") and letting me seek out the stuff I enjoyed -- monster movies, ghost stories, and anything supernatural-themed and spooky. <br><br>In fact, I have written a horror novel and I'm currently shopping it around to agents (and any lurking hotshot literary agents are encouraged to PM me <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>pronto</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> )...<br><br>Human beings are complex, and it's impossible to reduce someone's taste in entertainment to stock, pop-psychology clichés. Ever since we sat around campfires and looked with fear into the shadows beyond, we have told scary, violent, and dark-themed stories of ghosts, murderers, monsters, and demons. <br><br>I'm not a fan of gore for gore's sake, but gore can be used aestheticially. I just watched a very gory Japanese horror flick (Audition) and enjoyed its <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_guignol">grand guignol</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> excesses.<br><br>Horror fans are no more likely to be violent or deranged than fans of fluffy romantic comedies. <br><br>The solution is simple -- if you don't like to be scared, avoid scary entertainment. But don't knock or trivialize the interests and tastes of those who do appreciate a good fright. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=professorpan>professorpan</A> at: 8/23/06 11:21 am<br></i>
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re:

Postby DireStrike » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:37 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'm curious, though: If you can acknowledge the unreality of the horror (they're just actors, that's just fake blood) why is it harder to set aside the reality of drama?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I think gore is pretty much meaningless without corresponding human suffering. Perhaps I'm overly desensitized, but it's rare these days that I can find a character in a film that I can empathize with so much that their bloody death appears as anything more than a splash of red fluid. The burned woman in Silent Hill came close... that was almost a tragic situation.<br><br>Most characters in slasher/violent horror movies are nothing but caricatures - flesh puppets in a play where suspension of disbelief is impossible. On the other hand most dramatic characters are fully developed humans. Empathizing with their suffering is easy, whether it's physical or mental, though usually mental. And when you empathize with suffering, you get hurt.<br><br>In short, movies that rely on violence and gore are almost always bad movies, no matter what genre they're in.<br><br>Non-gory horror movies focus less on suffering and more on the bizarre. It's very tough to articulate without having recently watched a good horror film. The Mothman Prophecies is a good example. That voice... so creepy. What is it? What could it do? What should he do? He is threatened existentially, but on a far deeper level than simply having a knife to his throat. Perhaps that sort of fear resonates with me as something easily experienced in today's world. Outright violence is outlandish.<br><br>I might also be conflating my fascination with the supernatural and occult with horror, where that might be wrong. For example the X-files, Ghostbusters, and many other similar shows and movies. I don't know, I'll think about it more. <p></p><i></i>
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Re:Why Gore and not just the terror of Horror?

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:38 pm

Because the point of spook-supported gore 'entertainment' is to put the IMAGES which stay in our brains and induce mirror response or atleast a tolerance for real government horror called WAR.<br><br>The few movies I saw in cineplexes as a teenager are now barely recalled. <br><br>But the IMAGES I do remember are the WORST GORE like people being eaten in 'Jaws' or a de-capitation or impaling in 'The Exorcist.'. <br><br>That's the 'gift that keeps on giving' in movie psycho-political product which is really Domestic Terrorism and De-Sensitization.<br><br>Remember Dr. Narut's report of the US finding criminals and then having them watch increasingly gory films to de-sensitize them and make them into cold assassins?<br><br>This is exactly the opposite effect of what Stanley Kubrick misleadingly showed us in 'A Clockwork Orange.'<br><br>And we all know about Kubrick's work for control groups until he showed 'them' to us in 'Eyes Wide Open.' <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Re:Why Gore and not just the terror of Horror?

Postby professorpan » Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:05 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And we all know about Kubrick's work for control groups until he showed 'them' to us in 'Eyes Wide Open.'<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>No, we don't "know" that. You believe it, I don't.<br><br>I guess the CIA was messing with our ancestors' mirror neurons when they told violent tales around a campfire, eh, Hugh? Does your list of "spook-supported gore entertainment" include Homer, Shakespeare, Poe, Grand Guignol shows, and the connisseurs of gore and mayhem, the Grimm Brothers?<br><br>Simplistic analyses like yours ignore the fact that humans have always enjoyed vicarious violent entertainment. In fact, our lives are far less saturated with *real* gore and violence than our ancestors. Been to a public decapitation lately? Didn't think so. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Curse of the Demon

Postby Ouish » Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:39 pm

I see nobody's mentioned <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050766/" target="top"><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Curse of the Demon</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> (1957) as a horror movie which is not gory but is extremely scary. The director, <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050766/" target="top">Jacques Tourneur</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->, who also made the original <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.filmsite.org/catp.html" target="top"><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Cat People</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->, was reputedly a practicing occultist, and the villian is modelled on Alistair Crowley. The script is by <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0071657/" target="top">Charles Bennett</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->, based on <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.classicreader.com/read.php/sid.6/bookid.1833/" target="top">"Casting the Runes,"</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> a short story by <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.litgothic.com/Authors/mrjames.html" target="top">M.R. James</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->. <p></p><i></i>
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Dystopic Films

Postby johnny nemo » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:06 pm

I have never been a fan of horror films, as I've seen too much horror in real life for me to find it entertaining.<br><br>However, movies like <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Invasion Of The Body Snatchers</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, which is where the pic of Donald Sutherland from the last page is from, I always enjoyed.<br>I felt that films like the<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Andromeda Strain, Clockwork Orange,</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> etc. served to warn us of impending doom, if we didn't watch out.<br>These have been labeled <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Dystopic</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> and there are tons of them that are great.<br>In addition to the ones already mentioned, theres...<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><br>Brazil<br>Blade Runner<br>Creation of The Humanoids<br>Fahrenheit 451<br>Logan's Run<br>Mad Max<br>The Omega Man<br>The Running Man (which BTW, Stephen King ripped off a story called The Seventh Victim by Robert Sheckley)<br>Soylent Green<br>Colossus The Forbin Project</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>And a ton more that I'm forgetting at the moment. <br><br>If you want REAL horror, watch the original <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Rollerball</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> some time and listen to John Houseman's speech about the rise of the corprate state and realize that we are living in the middle of it. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: "Horror Fans" for Dummies

Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:09 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Blair Witch Project for one. Find the rest yourself.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Actually, there is some gore when they find Josh's tongue, so let's say 5% of the film is gory. Still, a great example and one that is fairly recent.<br><br>Two examples of horror films without any gore that I can remember are "The Haunting" (the original one) and "The Changeling".<br><br>Thanks for starting the thread.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=attackshipsonfire>Attack Ships on Fire</A> at: 8/23/06 2:10 pm<br></i>
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Re: "Horror Fans" for Dummies

Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:36 pm

Just wanted to add my two cents on what constitutes a horror film.<br><br>I believe that "horror" is a catchism of a wide spectrum of a genre, for this discussion specifically feature films. Classifying a movie like "Poltergeist" and "The Silence of the Lambs" side-by-side does a disservice to the filmmakers and their intent; it's like saying all romance movies are the same, or all documentaries, science fiction, etc. There's shlock horror, explotative horror, psychological horror, futuristic horror, themetic horror, revulsion horror (gore), hell, even dark comedic horror (Evil Dead 2, anyone?) One person's horror movie is to another individual utter crap or one of their most-loved treasures.<br><br>Compare a film like the original "Halloween" to the original "Friday the 13th"; my thoughts are that Carpenter's "Halloween" rose to become something a little greater than an explotive piece of entertainment meant to scare teenagers; it's a little classier, better filmed, better acted and better presented than F13. I also rate the original "Alien" far higher on my list than the first "Halloween", and I would daresay that "Alien" is one of the defining movies produced during the past 50 years of cinema, especially in the wider genre of escapism (sci-fi, horror, fantasy, action-adventure).<br><br>A film like "Seven", which contains very graphic and disturbing imagery and situations, to me, isn't explotative like something along the lines of "Wrong Turn" or "The Hitcher". "Seven" even goes so far as to make some comments about our society, the nature of evil and how little many of us may feel we contribute to stop bad things from happening. Then, if you want to twist things even further in perspective, look at George Romero's "Dawn of the Dead" film; steeped in gore (it was released unrated!), full of graphic scenes of zombies devouring human flesh, entrails and organs, and yet it's hailed as an allegory about consumerism and materialism. I enjoy it on both levels.<br><br>Does my liking of watching zombies feast on human flesh mean I'm a sick person? I'll argue that it doesn't. At its essence, horror is meant to push one's boundaries, to see further over the horizon of what your mind can conceive of. Good horror films, in my opinion, don't trivalize the nature of the story; they may present what is happening to you using disturbing imagery or even sensationalism but they don't rely on shock for simply shock value. Unfortunately, most of the mainstream horror movies out there are nothing but pornographic in their nature: their stories are not developed or involving to audiences so they're just a collection of graphic scenes meant to make audiences react just like one of Pavlov's dogs, just as 99% of all porn is meant for one reason only: to get you off.<br><br>You want to see horror? Rent "Testament". Not one graphic moment in that entire film but if you're a thinking human being you will be horrified. If you're a parent, chances are you'll be angry with me for suggesting that you watch such a film. There are scenes in that film so powerful, so horrific in the nature of what the main character is going through, that you don't need zombies or chesbusters or serial killers from your dreams to have nightmares. That film haunts me to this day and I'm a fellow that's seen hundreds, if not a couple of thousand, horror films over my three decades of living.<br><br>Horror can be the realization that you're alone in the universe. Horror can be the discovery of knowing that one day you will die. Horror can come in a heartbeat when your phone rings at 3AM and your mind races with possibilities, then vanishes away once you realize it's a wrong number, the feeling forgotten until the next time it happens. Horror comes when you hear a noise that doesn't sound right and you're alone in your house. Horror is everywhere and it has been a part of human existence since the first neurons in our ancestors brains formed, back before they were fish or even creatures that scuttled in the water, knowing the terror of what it's like as death approaches in its myriad forms.<br><br>Horror is what makes beautiful summer days, babies smiles and the love of your loved ones even better than they are. The universe needs horror and so do we, for without it we're not human beings that can feel love.<br><br>Even mighty, slumbering Cthulu needs a hug when he has a case of the Mondays.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Horror

Postby Sarutama » Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:48 pm

Posted this originally in the other thread, but not sure which is the live one at this point so I'm posting here as well.<br><br><br>Firstly I just need to say to AlanStrangis that I LOVE the original Dawn of the Dead, actually have the logo tattooed on my calf.<br><br>Now to a more on topic post. I think that the ratcheting up of gore/torture/destruction/whatever is happening do to the fact that we see that and more on the news day in and day out. Its in our daily lives. We are bombarded with stories of torture, war atrocities, etc everyday so naturally its going to seap into art.<br><br>This might seem strange, but I think some of it can actually serve a postive purpose. We hear about torture but, personally, I always found it hard to indetify with. I mean I always knew it was awful, but never had any real emotional connection with the word as I had no earthly idea how bad it could be. Then you see something like Hostel, where torture is right in front of you (actually, alot of it you don't see, but thats not really the point.) I found myself thinking "Wow, this made me incredibly uncomfortable and I KNOW its fake." The next time I heard about our soldiers and intelligence agencies torturing people I instantly, without thinking about it, flashed back to that uncomfortable place.<br><br>Some how the fictional torture had made the real torture that much more real. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=sarutama@rigorousintuition>Sarutama</A> at: 8/23/06 4:51 pm<br></i>
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Re: Horror

Postby FourthBase » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:31 pm

ASF, what a fantastic post.<br>I'm probably going to read it again, just to soak it up.<br><br>But one quick point:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>At its essence, horror is meant to push one's boundaries, to see further over the horizon of what your mind can conceive of.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>Does it not also pull the horizon closer?<br>The boundaries are not physical, but mental. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Curse of the Demon

Postby IanEye » Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:53 pm

Curse of the Demon<br>Kate Bush is clearly a big fan of that movie....<br>"it's in the trees! It's coming!! <p></p><i></i>
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cool trick in "Blair Witch"

Postby IanEye » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:09 pm

My favorite part of the "Blair Witch Project" is right at the end. I can't remember the character's names, so it's the "Guy and the "Girl". They are in the creepy house looking for their friend, and they split up, the Guy goes into the cellar with the video camera and the Girl goes up to the attic with the 16mm camera. The Girl gets up to the attic, realizes nothing is there, then hears her friend yelling for her, so she runs down many flights of stairs screaming his name, saying she's coming down etc. The audience sees this from her [16mm] point of view. But the 16mm camera has no microphone on it, only the video camera in the cellar is recording sound. So, when she is screaming in the attic, we see the attic with "her" eyes, yet we don't hear with "her" ears, but her voice gets closer and closer the closer she [and we] get to the cellar. It is a very disembodied effect and it costs nothing to pull off, no CGI, no sound studio trickery, just a happy accident.<br><br>I love happy accidents, which some people call coincidence..... <p></p><i></i>
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h

Postby orz » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:36 pm

I have nothing but total disrespect and distrust for anyone who is anti horror movies. The very idea that they are evil/etc is so wrongheaded that I don't know where to begin to respond.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Examples of horror that involves 0% gore, please. Try actually describing that distinction.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Robert Wise's "The Haunting". Most frightening horror movie I've ever see. No gore, no anything except pure genius of suspence and atmosphere...<br><br>I say that's the most frightening horror movie I saw... the most frightening movie generally was Mullholland Drive. Watching the haunting or other horror movies I was scared in empathy with the characters. Watching Mullholland Dr. (and the first half of Lost Highway) I was actually scared of the film itself.<br><br>Silent Hill movie was very dissapoointing... game was far scarier and more intersting. Problem with games of movies is that most games are movie ripoffs in the first place so when you make a movie of them it comes across as a ultra-generic mess...<br><br><br>Also, zombie movies are the highest form of cinema. Discuss. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: "Horror Fans" for Dummies

Postby orz » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:37 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>which might be capable of making people suffer the violence as if it happened to them (bad),<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>NO, that's empathy, which is GOOD.... good to the point of if you don't have it, you're effectively not human. <p></p><i></i>
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