Income Tax proven illegal in court: Your questions answered

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Income Tax proven illegal in court: Your questions answered

Postby Fogyreef » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:32 pm

Use this thread to ask questions about how it's possible that the Income Tax is really the biggest fraud in human history, what you should do about it and what it means to our country.<br><br><br>"What the Income Tax is illegal? You mean they're taking money out of my paycheck when they aren't supposed to?!"<br><br>Yes, the Income Tax is unconstitutional.<br><br>Yes, we have proof: <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.861.info" target="top">www.861.info</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> and <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.givemeliberty.org" target="top">www.givemeliberty.org</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Yes, we are winning court cases: <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLawsuit/Update2005-01-29.htm" target="top">Bob Shultz</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->, <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.sierratimes.com/03/08/10/ar_IRS_vs._KUGLIN.htm" target="top">FedEx Pilot Vernice Kuglin</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> and <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLawsuit/Update2005-06-28.htm" target="top">ex-IRS Criminal Investigator Joe Banister</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>It ain't easy, but they represent some of the biggest victories in the entire Tax Honesty movement. Vernice Kuglin and Joseph Banister won because the IRS themselves couldn't produce the law that imposes a tax on the labor of the average US Citizen. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :eek --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> Banister's own IRS SUPERVISOR couldn't prove IN A COURT OF LAW that we owe an Income Tax. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><br>So, what does that mean to you?<br><br>"I can't fight the IRS. They'll fine me, jail me, generally ruin my life without working up a sweat. "<br><br>True. For the most part, any average citizen taking the fight to the IRS will have their tail handed them soundly. The techinical legal maze fortress of the Tax Code has been assaulted for years by well meaning (and some not so well meaning) people with ill-conceived lawsuits or defenses. And the IRS is quick to trumpet the defeat of the "Tax Protesters" and stick their heads on pikes as a warning for all to never question the system.<br><br>So, now that the secret that the IRS and the Income Tax are the biggest financial fraud in human history is leaking out like the water pouring out of the levies in New Orleans ... what do you do?<br><br>NOTHING! Take no action. We are handling the fight in the courts. We are well organized, well funded, and we have time and the law on our side. What we need of YOU is your civic duty to EDUCATE yourself and spread the word! <br><br>My god, people, you're about to learn beyond doubt that that dreaded Income Tax is ILLEGAL!! The only people Constitutionally required to pay an Income tax are Corporations (Income legally means corporate profit), foreign earned income and possessions income (from our Federal possessions like Puerto Rico). What is NOT taxable is the domestically earned income the average citizen earns. See the links above for the explanation.<br><br><br>So, here we go. Ask me a question and I'll try my best to answer it...<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fogyreef>Fogyreef</A> at: 9/29/05 4:30 pm<br></i>
Fogyreef
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Income Tax proven illegal in court: Your questions answe

Postby Fogyreef » Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:02 pm

I'll get the obvious ones out of the way:<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>How will the country run without our tax money?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>The simple answer is that it doesn't run on our "tax money" in the first place. Anytime you hear about wasting tax payer money, that's just a myth. The government's own report proves that no Income Tax revenue goes to paying Federal salaries, buying bombs, funding Nasa, NOTHING. Read this: <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.taxstatement.cc/grace.asp" target="top">With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government. </a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><br>Remember, the roads are paid by local gas taxes, schools are paid for by property taxes, etc. To answer the more involved question of where Federal paychecks and military funds actually do come from, you need to study the Federal Reserve Corporation of Puerto Rico for the answers. Just don't think your Income Tax pays a cent of that money.<br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Why don't they just write another law?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Congress simply doesn't have the authority to write a law that imposes an Income Tax on us. Article 1 of the Constitution forces any Direct Tax, which includes the Income Tax, MUST be done through APPORTIONMENT, meaning that every citizen pays the same dollar figure. You pay $50, Bill Gates pays $50. It does NOT mean we all pay the same flat percentage, because that is not APPORTIONMENT. Your percentage is NOT the same dollar amount as Bill Gates' contribution.<br><br>Actually, it's a LOT more complicated than that, but let's crawl before we walk here.<br><br>It would take a constitutional amendment to allow Congress to lay at direct tax without apportionment.<br><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>But wait a minute. Doesn't the 16th Amendment do just that?!</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>It certainly appears that way when you read it, doesn't it: <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>However, go here and read the details surrounding the following Supreme Court decision: <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.usa-the-republic.com/revenue/true_history/Chap5.html" target="top">The TRUTH About the 16TH AMENDMENT</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Stanton vs Baltic Mining Co. 240 US 103, at 112 (1916)</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> "By the previous ruling, it was settled that <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation, possessed by Congress, from the beginning, from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation, to which it inherently belonged..."<br><br><br>The 16th Amendment left the income tax as an indirect excise tax and is to be enforced as such. It is a tax on corporate incomes not requiring the tax to be apportioned! On privileges! This is not my opinion, but a Supreme Court ruling. An important point to remember, is that the Supreme Court rulings must be followed by all lesser courts in this country. That is why I rely almost exclusively on Supreme Court decisions. They cannot be overruled by lower courts!<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
Fogyreef
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Income Tax proven illegal in court: Your questions answe

Postby Fogyreef » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:40 am

Step up, don't be shy. It's hard to imagine at first but it's the simplest thing to understand; <br><br>The Constitution does not allow Congress to lay a direct tax on us without making sure every person pays the same dollar amount.<br><br>Are you paying the same dollar amount as Bill Gates or the minimum wage worker? <br><br>No.<br><br>The Income Tax is therefore unconstitutional.<br><br>If you're not angry you're not a Patriot. Come on. Ask me some questions. We need to educate the People. <p></p><i></i>
Fogyreef
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

hey

Postby Homeless Halo » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:00 am

I know I haven't been here long, and maybe its just me, but um, you're preaching man, and I've been singing in the choir for years... <p></p><i></i>
Homeless Halo
 
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:51 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: hey

Postby Fogyreef » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:04 am

Dialog. It's all I want. Just trying to jump start some dialog with a bump or two. Found a "rigorous intuition" board in a world of robots.<br><br>If this entire board knows the fraud that is the Income Tax, I'll don my cape and fly off to spread the word best I can somewhere else.<br><br>That and I did a search and didn't pull up any discussions on the subject. It's too important not to try, right? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fogyreef>Fogyreef</A> at: 9/28/05 4:09 am<br></i>
Fogyreef
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: hey

Postby Fogyreef » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:07 am

Homeless, did you see this?<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://citizenspook.blogspot.com/2005/09/we-people-v-us-re-judge-sullivans.html">citizenspook.blogspot.com...ivans.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
Fogyreef
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

not in this context.

Postby Homeless Halo » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:36 am

I've not seen it as you posted it, but I've encountered it as an idea before. This topic has even been somewhat recently discussed, in an offhand manner even, by a relatively well known liberal radio talk host here in Detroit. Of course, this is one of the more liberal (in practice as opposed to rhetoric) places left in America. And the aforementioned host is somewhat lefter than left. <br><br>And I wasn't implying that many people do not know of this, just that, statistically, the odds of finding people here who are completely clueless about this seems to approach nil. Dialogue itself, can often by constructive, as long as it doesn't become an end to itself. <p></p><i></i>
Homeless Halo
 
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:51 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: not in this context.

Postby Fogyreef » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:30 am

The above blog does a truly excellent job of bringing the legal strategy necessary to bring down the IRS to a consise point. We now have a roadmap such that we've never had before to force the Judiciary to officially consider the tax code and it's constitutionality.<br><br>Now it's just a matter of time to take the steps in patient order.<br><br>In the meantime, any dialog that increases our jury pool's awareness will serve to protect more innocents from falling victim to the strong arm tactics of the IRS. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fogyreef>Fogyreef</A> at: 9/28/05 1:17 pm<br></i>
Fogyreef
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

honeypot/tarbaby?

Postby glubglubglub » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:33 pm

Fogyreef: fwiw in my opinion the illegality of the income tax, etc., if basically a honeypot / tarbaby for people who otherwise might accomplish something.<br><br>Let me put it this way: assuming your contention is correct (which I also am largely convinced is correct), expecting a deus ex judicia to save you from it seems basically childish...if you've essentially found the government to be illegitimate and to ignore its own laws when convenient -- which isn't exactly the claim made here but close enough for the moment -- expecting some other branch of that same government to act differently seems a fool's errand...<br><br>In a town where both the mayor and police are corrupt you can be sure neither one will do anything about your complaints about the other, and you'll be out the time and effort for trying. Again, in my opinion, in that situation you're better off preparing to leave.<br><br>So, it's not that you're wrong so much as the suggested response is a bit naive in my book, but good luck with it anyways. <p></p><i></i>
glubglubglub
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:14 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: honeypot/tarbaby?

Postby Fogyreef » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:14 am

Thanks for your good wishes.<br><br>I hear you on a certain level. But, are we going to be the citizens who close the shutters and acquiesce? One thing is guaranteed: If we do nothing, nothing will change. And that's what they are banking on.<br><br>Here's the rub: We now know the correct legal strategy to put the case in front of the Judicary in such a way that they would have to abandon the Constitution to avoid hearing us. Then they would have no choice but to tell us yes we're right, or no, the government can tax us directly without apportionment. Should it go to the Supreme Court and they satisfy us as to why it's legal (which they haven't volunteered in 10 years) and the conspiracy continues, then it's torch and pitchfork time, for we will have exhausted all our legal recourse. <br><br>From there it returns to the grass roots. And after we have all that evidence of systemic corruption if we can't dislodge the people responsible, we don't deserve to have a free country.<br> <p></p><i></i>
Fogyreef
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:11 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)


Return to Economics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests