Dragon I'll repond to your comments about Dan Edens story later.
And to the DOR Pine Gap thing. Cos its not as simple as that. But I suggest people have a look at the pine gap images if they want to see how green a desert can actually look.
This is getting interesting what hugh and arcadia are saying cos it brings up some interesting issues.
In melbourne this group started about 20 years ago.
They are called the Cave Clan.
Possibly the first urban infiltration network that ever developed an identity for itself. Cave Clan have the most comprehensive maps of underground structures in melbourne and actually make them available to authorities when the need arises.
They are not terrorists.
http://www.caveclan.org/links.html
Notice that if you go to the link page the first link they have is to Infiltration.
Somewhere online is an essay from a memeber of Sydney or Melbourne Cave Clan basically saying the war on terror is bullshit, there is no credible threat. If there was then every city in the world is completely vulnerable. And yet nothing has happened.
Can't find that essay yet. (But I might have originally seen it through a link to this site or the blog).
The cave clan memebers are mostly male, in their 20 to30s and quite territorial. I have no doubt if they came across people preparing for terrorist activities under Aussie capitals the terrorists would never see the light of day again.
Any keywords making you pay closer attention yet? How do you think Homeland inSecurity sees infrastructure "Infiltration?" Probably warily, right?
I can understand your concern in this context hugh, and arcadia's too. but really this is something that I think also needs to be said.
Well first up, as if Homeland security are unaware of groups like infiltration. Of course they are, and of course they probably find it a bit sus. But from what I understand of those people, islamic terrorism is right off their agenda. Now if anything I would expect Homeland security to be actually working with these groups of underground explorers. The groups in Australia may do stuff thats illegal in their inflitration, but the cause no vandalism/damage and no harm and are basically not chased down like terrorists. The authorities use their discretion. (OK so I can see how this might not happen in the US but anyway...)
But these groups are an everyday part of our culture, they grew out of the many urban subcultures that developed through the 70s and esp the 80s. To self censor ourselves in relation to this sort of thing ... well who the fuck needs any sort of fascist overlord watching us to make sure we keep silent.
We will be doing their job for them.
Once the central ideas that RI explores become part of the same list of taboo topics that seems to be developing here what are we gonna do. Say nothing?
Do you think that is just naughty fun or verging on internet provocation?
These undeground adventurer sites didn't just spring up after the internet provocation laws, they are another example of how those laws disenfranchise ordinary citizens doing their own thing.
That is a trend I find very disturbing.
I also find the posts Burnt Hill has made to seem a bit provactive BTW.
Whether that a smart arsed response to some of the concerns raised here or not I dunno.
Cos I am aware of the issues Hugh (even if I think hughie is sometimes a bit ... creative in his interpretations of events to fit his POV). Personally if i were BH I would have tried to make it obvious that I am not gonna further those issues that have raised concerns amopng board memebers as well. Cos its a giveand take thing. I don't get that impression and that is a bit disturbing. But it could just be me. If we all thought and acted exactly the same the world would be a damn boring place.
SO whats the deal BH? Are you advocating destruction of property and stuff that is illegal under the various (dodgy) laws hugh has mentioned?
At the very least respect for Jeff and other memebrs of this site should, I hope, give you an understanding of their concerns and perhaps inspoire you to answer those concerns?
)