What constitutes Misogyny?

[Stephen Morgan]

[Saurian Tail]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the video. ^^^^

I hope this is not a set-up by SM and I wish someone else had posted it.

In any case, I wanted to ask for female feedback. Is this kind of expression welcome? A good start? Over the top? Doesn't go far enough? Suspect? Offensive? Your thoughts and comments would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

-ST

[charlie meadows]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the video. ^^^^

I hope this is not a set-up by SM and I wish someone else had posted it.

In any case, I wanted to ask for female feedback. Is this kind of expression welcome? A good start? Over the top? Doesn't go far enough? Suspect? Offensive? Your thoughts and comments would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

-ST

ST,

You might head over to the saloon for commentary.

I found the video increasingly creepy and disturbing throughout.

[Saurian Tail]

ST,

You might head over to the saloon for commentary.

I found the video increasingly creepy and disturbing throughout.

Thanks for your feedback Charlie. Thanks also for pointing me over to the Saloon thread. Good feedback all around.

The comments on youtube are worth browsing ... not surprisingly, many men go absolutely apoplectic over the thought of apologizing for misogyny.

Regards,

-ST

[Stephen Morgan]

It wasn't a "set up", I just wanted to assess people's reaction, as they won't let this thread die.

Obviously I find the thing abhorrent, I don't see how any thinking person can take it seriously. Collective responsibility, a theory much beloved of Nazis and oppressive occupying forces. Belief in it, that someone is responsible for the actions of others because they were born into the same group, singles one out as an enemy of individual freedom, an enemy of humanity and an enemy of justice.

I saw it on a board which is normally extremely feminist friendly, and even they were almost unanimously against it.

[Mr. Blissed]

Misogyny isn't a divide and conquer tactic most of the time. It simply exists, like any basic hatred of "the other".

Anti-feminism, however, is most definitely a divide-and-conquer thing, and is used politically for that very purpose. All the freaking time.

Hatred in this context is a completely human construction. To say that "it simply exists" is to deny the responsibility for challenging it. Furthermore, our competitive society endorses inequality with the ultimate goal of dehumanizing people in a massive scale. Even the concept of political correctness has been used and is being used to harm people. I don't know how many letters I have read from various agencies and organizations all using unoffensive [at least at first glance] terminology but the intent of the document often is a harsh judgment on the value of a person.

The fact that the concept of misogyny exists at all shows that horrendous condition people are in. The fact that we can comprehend such a separation between individuals is in itself a "chosen delusional state" [sorry but I couldn't come up with a better phrase, which did not abdicate responsibility.]

People need to get back to the basics of looking at the intent of the communication, stripping away all the hyperbole and call attention to the issues. It is an ongoing, and often unpopular, practice to undertake. But it is one task, if we ever hope to mature as societies which must be undertaken, first and foremost by the individual.

[Saurian Tail]

It wasn't a "set up", I just wanted to assess people's reaction, as they won't let this thread die.

Obviously I find the thing abhorrent, I don't see how any thinking person can take it seriously. Collective responsibility, a theory much beloved of Nazis and oppressive occupying forces. Belief in it, that someone is responsible for the actions of others because they were born into the same group, singles one out as an enemy of individual freedom, an enemy of humanity and an enemy of justice.

I saw it on a board which is normally extremely feminist friendly, and even they were almost unanimously against it.

Stephen,

Who is the "they" you are referring to here: "It wasn't a "set up", I just wanted to assess people's reaction, as they won't let this thread die."

As to the remainder of your comments:

Appeal to Ridicule: "Obviously I find the thing abhorrent, I don't see how any thinking person can take it seriously."

Poisoning the Well: "Collective responsibility, a theory much beloved of Nazis and oppressive occupying forces."

Slippery Slope: "Belief in it, that someone is responsible for the actions of others because they were born into the same group, singles one out as an enemy of individual freedom, an enemy of humanity and an enemy of justice."

Bandwagon: "I saw it on a board which is normally extremely feminist friendly, and even they were almost unanimously against it."

-ST

[Canadian_watcher]

High Five Saurian!!!!!!!!!

[norton ash]

High Five Saurian!!!!!!!!!

Smells like mean-girl spirit. Whoo!

[MacCruiskeen]

Obviously I find the thing abhorrent, I don't see how any thinking person can take it seriously

When you're right you're right, Stephen. I managed to endure precisely one minute of that video. They are both deeply creepy, those guys, but the skinny bearded bloke with the English accent is one of the most puke-provoking soft-soapers I have ever seen. What terrible acting! What an obvious phoney!

As The Consul said about Donald Trump: I wouldn't leave him alone with my dog.

[Canadian_watcher]

High Five Saurian!!!!!!!!!

Smells like mean-girl spirit. Whoo!

Trolling? Want a little of momma C-W's attention, do you?

[Canadian_watcher]

Obviously I find the thing abhorrent, I don't see how any thinking person can take it seriously

When you're right you're right, Stephen. I managed to endure precisely one minute of that video. They are both deeply creepy, those guys, but the skinny bearded bloke with the English accent is one of the most puke-provoking soft-soapers I have ever seen. What terrible acting! What an obvious phoney!

As The Consul said about Donald Trump: I wouldn't leave him alone with my dog.

yeah, the video was a patronizing piece of shit.
not surprised by who posted it here.

[MacCruiskeen]

While I was watching it, a line from a play by John McGrath came to mind:

Ah, get away from me with your hands-across-the-water and your finger up me bum!

[brekin]

Here is the text of the manifesto:

http://www.facebook.com/consciousmen?v=app_4949752878

I don't know. For me although some of it gets a bit nebulous and seeing "the feminine" instead of individual
women I think can be problematic and ironically unfair for woman in general, I say its a good start. Heavy on the woo and short on practicalities but if I had to sign this manifesto or one for the status quo, I'd go with this one.

Dear Woman:

I come to you today as a man committed to becoming more conscious in every way. I feel deep love, great respect and a growing sense of worship for the gifts of the feminine. I also feel deep sorrow about the destructive actions of the unconscious masculine in the past and present. I want to apologize to you and make amends for those actions, in order to bring forth a new era of co-creation with you.

As I become more conscious, I grow more aware of the play of masculine and feminine energies: within me, within you and in all of life. I know that we all have access to the full spectrum of these energies. I also have a growing awakening to the dimension beyond all dualities, free and open as the sky.

I commit to owning and stewarding a masculinity that honors and celebrates us as equals. I know that in order to truly honor you as a multi-dimensional woman, I must stand fully present in myself, and own the gifts I have to share with you. We can create great miracles together by nurturing each other in a conscious way, by treating each other with reverence and respect, and by worshiping the divinity expressed in both masculine and feminine energy.

As men, our relationship to the feminine has often been unconscious. I feel sorrow that women and feminine energy have been for so long subjugated and oppressed. Throughout history, men have raped and abused you, burned you at the stake, bought and sold your bodies for sexual pleasure, barred you from religious and political office, relegated you to subservient chores, forced you to hide your faces and even cut off your organs of sexual pleasure.

I may not have done these things myself, but I am aware of the forces in the unconscious masculine psyche that feel threatened by and then seek to dominate the feminine. Many of the men who have oppressed or abused you are no longer alive. Among the living, many men may be unable to apologize because they remain shackled in a prison of anger, fear and shame. On behalf of my gender, I apologize to you for our unconscious actions when we were angry, scared and in the grip of destructive forces in our psyche. I choose no longer to contribute to those forces, nor to be run by them in my own life. I offer you this apology in hopes that we can make a fresh start in a spirit of co-creation.

I acknowledge that the religions of the past several thousand years have been mainly founded by and propagated by men. We have often acted as if we have the last word on God and the spiritual life, when all we have really known is the masculine expression of those things. As a result, we have suppressed more heartfelt, connective and inclusive spiritualities. I commit now to also honoring the spirituality of the divine feminine.

I honor your deep connection to the earth. As men, our relationship to our planet and its resources has often been motivated by competition, acquisition and domination. We mistakenly believed that expansion would protect us from encroachment, and in the process we violated the sanctity of the Earth and disturbed its natural rhythms. I commit to listening to the intuitive sense you have of how to heal our planet and make it thrive.

I honor your intuition and your profound capacity for feeling. As men, we have often devalued feeling and intuition in favor of a view dominated by data and logic. This way of being seemed necessary to move humanity beyond superstition and animalism, but in the process we lost much of the heart of life. I commit to respecting the arts of feeling, intuition and wisdom of the feminine heart, so that together we can integrate them into a balanced view of life, that honors and includes all wisdoms.

I honor the beauty and integrity of your body. When we nurture each other through our bodies with awareness and devotion, there are no boundaries to the love that we can generate. I feel sorrow that men have used your beauty as a form of commerce in prostitution and pornography. In the grip of lust we have often lacked the skills to ask gracefully for intimacy or to take ‘No’ for an answer. I take a stand against any form of enforced or soulless commercialization of woman’s beauty, and I respect that your body belongs to you.

I honor your capacity for peaceful resolution of conflicts, your ability to apologize effectively and forgive with grace. We men have waged endless wars over our disagreements. In the act of defending our lands and protecting our families, we became addicted to the fight itself. By contrast, it is rare to find an invasion or war instigated by a woman. I apologize for dragging you into these wars, and for the rape, murder, broken hearts and damaged families that resulted from them. We welcome your wisdom in creating a world that can get along without resorting to destruction.

I honor your capacity to listen to your body and its needs for food, rest and playtime. I celebrate your ability to pay attention to what is here, right now. As men, our preoccupation with goals and results often has burnt us out and made us unavailable for relationship. I know we have drawn you into this imbalance as well, so often frustrating your longing to connect. The time for a process-centred way of being is now upon us. I welcome your wisdom to maintain balance in our bodies, and in our ways of meeting.

I honor your sense of compassionate justice. In our justice system, men have dominated as judges and police, build prisons and revered the principle of punishment. I welcome you to work with us in bringing the return of the heart to our system of justice.

I also know that global economics have been dominated by the unconscious masculine, often living in a sense of lack and greed. As a result, many people have been left impoverished and disempowered. With your natural sense of nurturing and abundance, I know we can work together to create a truly caring global economics.

In apologizing to you for the hurts we men have caused you, I acknowledge that I and many of my brothers have also felt hurt by our mothers, our sisters, our partners and ex-partners. As a conscious man I am willing to feel those hurts fully within myself and release them. I forgive you for any ways you may have acted unconsciously, as I forgive myself and my gender for our own waking sleep.

From this day, moving forward, I vow to treat your heart as the sacred temple it is, and I commit to honoring the feminine in you and me and in my relationship to all life. I know that by leaving the past behind and joining hands in the present, we can create a synergy of our strengths. Together, there is nothing we cannot do.

Together, we can make miracles.

[norton ash]

C-W, i'm just disappointed AGAIN in your attitude to your thread and its participants. I don't see any gain in reducing Morgan's explanation of why that video is creepy rubbish or where it came from to rhetorical bullet points, and especially not your 'high five' of same.

Is this is a discussion thread or a volleyball game? Other posters see fit to fully engage with Morgan, whereas I think you'd prefer to just keep playing boys-against-girls.

Trolling? Want a little of momma C-W's attention, do you?

You embarrass me, but not for the reasons you might think.