Do we need population reduction?

[Hammer of Los]

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Ninja scrolls tell morrow's secret!
Hawk Man grown, no longer egret!

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[harry ashburn]

unfortunately,in this case, its self-correcting. Our oceans, therefore ultimately will be our bodies, imbued with microscopic plastic particles from the Texas-sized trash island, led by Fukushima waste, the pthalates will leach into our bodies and feminize males. The combination of the obesity epidemic, plus our loss of testosterone, (overcome by estrogen-mimicking compounds), will prohibit natural procreation. In addition, we have chlorine water coursing under pressure thru PVC pipe under our feet. PolyVinylChloride, with chlorinated water under pressure coursing thru it. I learned in 8th grade chemistry that water was also called "the universal solvent". Any of ya'll remember that? Bet they don't say it anymore. Anyway, shrunken male genitalia and obesity will pretty much end natural reproduction.

[JackRiddler]

unfortunately,in this case, its self-correcting. Our oceans, therefore ultimately will be our bodies, imbued with microscopic plastic particles from the Texas-sized trash island, led by Fukushima waste, the pthalates will leach into our bodies and feminize males. The combination of the obesity epidemic, plus our loss of testosterone, (overcome by estrogen-mimicking compounds), will prohibit natural procreation. In addition, we have chlorine water coursing under pressure thru PVC pipe under our feet. PolyVinylChloride, with chlorinated water under pressure coursing thru it. I learned in 8th grade chemistry that water was also called "the universal solvent". Any of ya'll remember that? Bet they don't say it anymore. Anyway, shrunken male genitalia and obesity will pretty much end natural reproduction.

Even if it worked this way, which it won't, this is not a scenario I'd expect to have any impact on population. (Obesity epidemic? Are you kidding me?) People will adopt intelligent measures of population control as one part of a global ecological transformation of all economics - production, consumption, extraction and waste management. Or we will have the usual four horsemen of plague, famine, war and pestilence.

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[wintler2]

I wonder about the emancipation of women - might that be the best way to moderate births?


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.the space age is dawning..

Pfft. The space age is in retirement - the yanks are wheeling around the space shuttle as an object of worship and the cobbled-together space station is decades beyond its planned useby. Hollywood has alot to answer for, but then some people are just think the wonder of life on earth, gods creation to the godly, is disposable.

[Ben D]

.the space age is dawning..

Pfft. The space age is in retirement - the yanks are wheeling around the space shuttle as an object of worship and the cobbled-together space station is decades beyond its planned useby. Hollywood has alot to answer for, but then some people are just think the wonder of life on earth, gods creation to the godly, is disposable.

Hey,.the Cosmos is there and beckons, the science is a gift being plucked from the aethers by appropriately tuned human minds, the technological advances are accelerating,...like or hate it the space age is here, and bar nuclear armageddon, here to stay. It's not just the USA and Russia anymore, it's the planetary species realizing the capability to leave and explore the extra terrestrial environment,...China, Japan, India, Brazil, Europe, etc.. But you know all this....

[wintler2]

.the space age is dawning..

Pfft. The space age is in retirement - the yanks are wheeling around the space shuttle as an object of worship and the cobbled-together space station is decades beyond its planned useby. Hollywood has alot to answer for, but then some people are just think the wonder of life on earth, gods creation to the godly, is disposable.

Hey,.the Cosmos is there and beckons, the science is a gift being plucked from the aethers by appropriately tuned human minds, the technological advances are accelerating,...like or hate it the space age is here, and bar nuclear armageddon, here to stay. It's not just the USA and Russia anymore, it's the planetary species realizing the capability to leave and explore the extra terrestrial environment,...China, Japan, India, Brazil, Europe, etc.. But you know all this....

Sounds like you've fallen for the same namshub as HoL.

42 years since moon landing, and since then ... sweet f. all. No settlement, no Mars trip, a space station no bigger yet older than most trailerhomes.. how many decades since a human has even left earths orbit?

[Ben D]

If you want to know the space plans, just google 'USA moon base plans' and one by one change the country,...Japan, China, Russia, Europe, and India to get a rough idea where the off planet space program is heading, moon colonization will come first, then mars, then...

Namshub? hmmmm did you know Lam could be one of the Anunnaki, the Benelohim of Genesis 6 and the Book of Enoch...

[wintler2]

If you want to know the space plans, just google 'USA moon base plans' and one by one change the country,...Japan, China, Russia, Europe, and India to get a rough idea where the off planet space program is heading, moon colonization will come first, then mars, then...

Of course there are sales pitches, even rocket scientists gotta eat, right? NASA has to pretend to be doing something with its billions in taxes. But the facts you cannot face are that we have gone nowhere offplanet for decades, are on a fantastically unsustainable road to nowhere on this planet, and no thermodynamically impossible tech wonder, sky daddy god or alien buddah is going to arrive and save us.

Cultural reform is the only trick we've got left, and i was quite serious in suggesting upthread that womens emancipation (broadly defined, ie. legal & economic equality, community safety, as well as political rights) might deliver population control. Any opinion?

[82_28]

Technically and as far as we know, no human has ever left Earth's orbit, as the Moon does orbit the Earth. But I do see what you mean -- to go into orbit around another planetary or lunar body.

[jcivil]

Technically and as far as we know, no human has ever left Earth's orbit, as the Moon does orbit the Earth. But I do see what you mean -- to go into orbit around another planetary or lunar body.

thank you (uh, hey bevis, is the moon in earth's orbit? but hey, voyager just exited the solar system, if not the neighborhood, so score another for the robots!)

the human movement to cities is very likely the bio/psychologic preparation for leaving the birth planet. First distance and disconnect from nature before departure. We are so out of here. I can make artificial suns and planets so I figure there are some smarter mankeys and computers that can too.

[JackRiddler]

Of course there are sales pitches, even rocket scientists gotta eat, right?

Oh, you'll admit their audacity in the pursuit of funding is nothing compared to this.

NASA has to pretend to be doing something with its billions in taxes. But the facts you cannot face are that we have gone nowhere offplanet for decades, are on a fantastically unsustainable road to nowhere on this planet, and no thermodynamically impossible tech wonder, sky daddy god or alien buddah is going to arrive and save us.

I agree. Space is fantasy escapism long as we're not dealing with ecology on earth, which poses an immediate threat of extinction or fall of civilization (historically speaking -- either already too late, or a matter of 1-3 generations away). I do think the human species will inevitably produce either self-extinction in the biological short term, or space colonization in the mid-term -- probably not by homo sapiens but by our goddamn AI machines. In whatever form, we're talking about a timescale of many centuries and millennia, and it will never happen unless sustainability can be achieved on planet first. As far as setting up colonies or even outposts on other planets we're still making flint tools. but the movies make it seem like we're somewhere between the Wrights and Lindbergh on our way to Dreamliners.

Interesting that our resident global warming deniers think they'll be taking a trip on the Enterprise!

Cultural reform is the only trick we've got left, and i was quite serious in suggesting upthread that womens emancipation (broadly defined, ie. legal & economic equality, community safety, as well as political rights) might deliver population control. Any opinion?

Obviously. It's been the most effective way by far, at this point for more than a century in many regions. With all that womens' emancipation implies: human development, education, family planning, contraception and abortion, later marriage, right of divorce and rights to property, etc. All the plagues and famines and die-offs never reduced birth rates (or even raised death rates!) for more than a couple of generations.

[undead]

I wonder about the emancipation of women - might that be the best way to moderate births?

Yes. Yes population reduction is needed and this is the only humane way to do it - by providing free access to birth control and contraception, as well as education for women. If women were emancipated and got to choose whether or not they would make children, they would choose to procreate within their means of living. The situation now creates overwhelming quantities of human life that are considered expendable by the capitalist elites. The more people are born and die, the more they profit. Empowering women with birth control and education would raise the general quality of life in developing countries.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Indeed, I seem to recall that education was an even greater factor in determining birth rates than quality of life, no? That delightful Hans Rosling guy who runs around in front of a projection screen on TED all the time, it's a great schtick.

It's dizzying to read something like this Mark Ames piece on the fascist origins of "Right to Work" rhetoric & strategy, and contemplate the mind control networks operating in plain sight known as organized religions -- consider how much the Baptist clergy were able to control the first two generations of Rockefeller investment! Consider the Mormon Empire, or the mighty Protestant Army known as the CIA...it's hard to avoid the conclusion that ignorance is an investment.

From Charlotte Isyerbit to John Taylor Gatto, it's never been much of a secret, either...discussed in public, blueprints aplenty and a hundred hand-written smoking guns. The payoff is what we're living through now: a majority that is dumb enough to swallow anything, being programmed and played for decades by a relentlessly in-fighting insider cabal of sociopaths and occasional dreamers. I don't think most of them are really prepared to handle the blowback when this trend continues, though -- they have been far too successful for their own good, let alone anyone else's.

The question of how to reverse the trend, halt the momentum, is a central concern. I suspect the answer has more to do with the principles behind one-on-one conversational therapy / NLP material will have more of an answer to offer than any pedagogy theory -- although I do dig the work of Reuven Feuerstein and recommend it to anyone interesting in learning or school reform.

Anyways: open hearts and ocean-sized patience. Dumb is pathology, we have to talk ourselves out of it.

[JackRiddler]

As you referred to Hans Rosling:

http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... =8&t=31049

[Hammer of Los]

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Oh what the hell.

Sounds like you've fallen for the same namshub as HoL.

There's no need to be quite so mean.

Interesting that our resident global warming deniers think they'll be taking a trip on the Enterprise!

Just for the record, I don't wanna go nowhere!

I like it right here in middle earth!

Them silver guys wanted to speak with me years ago but I told them to shove off.

The earth speaks to me.

The earth must endure.

Heavens above and earth below.

He didn't just mention elohim, did he?

Blinkin' El!

What's the secret of the E L O hymn?

Someone told me to ramble on once, so I decided I would.

It was probably bad advice.

On the other hand, the Cosmos itself told me to blog about the dao.

Back on topic;

Yes population reduction is needed and this is the only humane way to do it - by providing free access to birth control and contraception, as well as education for women. If women were emancipated and got to choose whether or not they would make children, they would choose to procreate within their means of living. The situation now creates overwhelming quantities of human life that are considered expendable by the capitalist elites. The more people are born and die, the more they profit. Empowering women with birth control and education would raise the general quality of life in developing countries.

Undead is right as usual.

Live small.

Least is greatest.

Establish harmonious relation.

Learn what is required for preservation.

But the facts you cannot face are that we have gone nowhere offplanet for decades, are on a fantastically unsustainable road to nowhere on this planet, and no thermodynamically impossible tech wonder, sky daddy god or alien buddah is going to arrive and save us.

No alien buddah is going to arrive and save us?

Damn.

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