Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Belligerent Savant
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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.
“In the period 1982-2019 we have observed a decrease in cloud cover from 64 % to 61%.

This means that the Earth has received significantly more solar radiation.

This may well be the main explanation for the observed temperature increase of about 0.7C during this period.”

Prof Ole Humlum
University of Oslo

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They take the raw data and "correct it" by cooling the past to make the appearance of warming more alarming.

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Michael Shellenberger
@shellenberger

Climate policy prevented the IPCC’s high emissions scenario, say the media. It didn’t. The scenario was never possible as it predicted burning 5x more coal than is known to exist, even as natural gas was replacing it. The IPCC must be radically reformed or shut down.

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Governments, banks, and corporations across the developed world have for nearly four decades treated the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) as the final word on the science of climate change.

The Obama and Biden administrations regulated carbon dioxide as a pollutant on the strength of IPCC findings. The European Union built its emissions trading system around IPCC scenarios. The United Kingdom anchored its 2008 Climate Change Act in projections drawn from the panel’s reports.

Central banks established a Network for Greening the Financial System that now requires more than 140 supervisors to stress-test banks against IPCC-derived futures. Asset managers wrote trillions of dollars in environmental, social, and governance funds on the assumption that the panel’s high-end scenario described the world’s likely path.

Local governments along American and European coastlines planned seawalls and zoning rules around IPCC sea level numbers. Insurance companies repriced risk on the same models.

That assumption has now collapsed. In April 2026, the scenario committee that supplies the IPCC’s Seventh Assessment Report, known as ScenarioMIP, published a paper that concluded that “on the high-end of the range, the CMIP6 high emission levels (quantified by SSP5-8.5) have become implausible…”

In other words, the worst-case future that has anchored climate science for fifteen years describes a world that cannot exist. Scenario “RCP 8.5,” and its successor SSP5-8.5, generated more than half of the references in the 2018 U.S. Fourth National Climate Assessment. They accounted for nearly 60% of the references in the IPCC’s Special Report on the Ocean and Cryosphere. Thirty new studies per day are published based on RCP 8.5.

The IPCC’s defenders insist that the world dodged the apocalypse because of climate policy. A modeler told Carbon Brief that RCP 8.5 had “become implausible, based on trends in the costs of renewables, the emergence of climate policy and recent emission trends.”

Berkeley Earth’s Zeke Hausfather argued that “it is incontrovertible that rapid cost declines, investment in, and deployment of clean energy technologies in the past 15 years have changed the plausible scenarios for fossil fuel use later in this century.

These new scenarios reflect this success.” Robert Vautard, co-chair of the IPCC’s Working Group I for the upcoming Seventh Assessment Report, said that the previous high scenarios “started in 2015 and assumed no climate policies, but there ARE now many climate policies in many countries, developed in particular with the Paris Agreement,” and the retirement of RCP 8.5 “shows that climate mitigation policies do consistently reduce global warming.”

Michael Mann of the University of Pennsylvania said on X, “The good news is emissions are now tracking below older ‘business-as-usual’ pathways because of climate policy in spite of Trump.”

But that story is false. RCP 8.5 was never plausible, and the people who built it either knew or should have known. A 2017 paper by Justin Ritchie and Hadi Dowlatabadi in the journal Energy showed that the scenario assumed roughly an eightfold expansion of global coal consumption by 2100, far exceeding five times proven coal reserves, based on extrapolating early-2000s Chinese coal growth rates indefinitely into the future.

Coal’s share of the global energy mix peaked around 2013 and has fallen since, the opposite of the RCP 8.5 trajectory. The scenario also assumed a dramatic expansion of coal-to-liquids technology to replace petroleum, a technology that the United States and other industrialized economies abandoned in the 1980s when the collapse in oil prices killed off the Carter-era Synthetic Fuels Corporation.

None of those assumptions reflected what serious energy analysts were saying in 2011, when the scenario was finalized. The American shale gas revolution had already been underway for half a decade. Between 2005 and 2022, U.S. carbon emissions from electricity generation fell by roughly 35%, with more than 60% of that decline driven by switching from coal to natural gas.

In 2021, Roger Pielke Jr. and his coauthors found that observed emissions had been running below the RCP and SSP baseline scenarios for two decades, primarily because of slower-than-projected carbon intensity growth, not climate policy. As Pielke put it recently, “RCP8.5 is not simply ‘highly unlikely,’ it is falsified, meaning that its emissions trajectory is already well out of step with reality. We knew that in 2020.”

IPCC’s scenario builders thus broke their own definition of a scenario, which the IPCC’s 2000 Special Report on Emissions Scenarios defined as is “a coherent, internally consistent, and plausible description of a possible future state of the world,” and RCP 8.5 was none of those things....
https://x.com/shellenberger/status/2059 ... 96247?s=20

All of the above aside, I will type once again: everyday anthropogenic factors or actions by the common citizenry (typical everyday humans anywhere/everywhere) have NO impact on "climate change".

One of numerous egregious lies/scams of the modern era.
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DrEvil
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Would it kill you to provide proper links to the stuff you post? Where did the Ole Humlum quotes come from (no, I'm not signing up to Twitter/xAI/SpaceX)?

All of the above aside, I will type once again: everyday anthropogenic factors or actions by the common citizenry (typical everyday humans anywhere/everywhere) have NO impact on "climate change".
So (8.3 billion) humans can't cut down or burn forests, destroy wetlands or release aerosols that create acid rain or reflect sunshine?
They take the raw data and "correct it" by cooling the past to make the appearance of warming more alarming.
The raw data is no good on its own. Here's an overview of why and how the adjustments are made:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-h ... e-records/
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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So (8.3 billion) humans can't cut down or burn forests, destroy wetlands or release aerosols that create acid rain or reflect sunshine?
lets keep the focus on where it belongs and maybe your outlook will change (if not financially influenced) from pro to neutral. an entity (for which you are shilling) cannot do anything positive about that. said entity, the so-called "government" ain't playing and they badly want to do something about that. unctious feelings about what is right or wrong are irrelevant when there's a wolf at the door. don't open for him, please
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
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DrEvil
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Thankfully your so-called government isn't my government. If it was just coming from the US I would be more skeptical, but it isn't, it's everyone. And it's not really governments pushing for this (at least it wasn't) - most governments have been fighting tooth and nail for decades to not do anything, and many still are. The US is run by a bunch of denier half-wits. India is run by a denier (while thousands die in heatwaves). Fuck knows what Putin really thinks, but oil and gas are what keeps the war machine going, etc.

The only reason there's any movement at all is because a) it's blindingly obvious what's going on by now, and b) renewables are getting cheaper than fossil fuels.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Belligerent Savant
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Post by Belligerent Savant »

DrEvil wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2026 3:45 pm Would it kill you to provide proper links to the stuff you post? Where did the Ole Humlum quotes come from (no, I'm not signing up to Twitter/xAI/SpaceX)?
Here is an AI-generated summary (which includes biased content and is riddled with status quo counters):

https://share.google/aimode/7VNRCnakVMeRS3yIX

You can also look up the statements/studies put forth by the professor, of course. It's out there to be found.

I'll help kick-start the effort:

https://scholar.google.com/citations?us ... AAAJ&hl=no

DrEvil:
So (8.3 billion) humans can't cut down or burn forests, destroy wetlands or release aerosols that create acid rain or reflect sunshine?
Yes, but most of those actions aren't performed by 'everyday' humans performing everyday tasks.
The notion that citizens in any nation need to have their agency (or ways of life, etc.) curbed to stop "global warming/climate change" is absurd non-science. This is my primary point.

Most of the climate alarm narratives are BS scare tactics/disinfo to induce a variety of reactions, facilitating the passage of objectives that benefit the miniscule few at the expense of the majority.

To be clear, the climate does indeed fluctuate, as it has throughout the age of the Earth. It's possible we may be in the midst of a cyclical shift in climate/weather patterns. Additionally, certain entities (govt agencies/black ops, etc) have been manipulating certain weather patterns -- via localized targeting, etc; see my prior posts in this thread Re: geo-engineering. Other actions, like deforestation, also negatively impact environments. But plebe-derived 'anthropogenic' climate change as presented/posited to the masses (and utilized to drive various regulatory and/or legislative measures) is utter nonsense.


As with many issues in this modern era, the masses are conditioned, manipulated, primed and propagandized to think and act against their collective interests. Unfortunately many continue to be swayed by such tactics, to our detriment.
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DrEvil
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Thanks, I'll skip the pathological liar summary (in case you aren't aware: AIs lying and making shit up is a feature, not a bug. It's an intrinsic part of how they work).

As for this:
Yes, but most of those actions aren't performed by 'everyday' humans performing everyday tasks.
That's misleading in the extreme. The constant fucking over of nature is a direct result of everyday people wanting stuff, even if most of them aren't directly involved in the fucking over.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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DrEvil
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Meanwhile, heat records are being broken left and right in Europe (again) with the second heatwave of the summer, and it's still only June, and the May heatwave in India killed about 30,000 people in five days.

Almost like there's something going on. What could it be?
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Laodicean
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Summer.
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Laodicean
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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30,000 people died in India, everybody.
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