What was your 911 moment?

NewKid · Post by **NewKid** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:00 pm

How many of you here have had other people approach you about 9-11 who you thought were totally conventional wisdom mainstream type of people?

Et in Arcadia ego · Post by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:27 pm

In my day to day world, no one ever brings it up. Ever..

dude h homeslice ix · Post by **dude h homeslice ix** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:42 pm

no one EVER fucking brings it up, but ill say this: the other day i was at a buddies' house for a memorial day bbq...this 20 year old with his girlfriend was there, maybe they were more like 18...anyway, he said as far as he was concerned, pearl harbor was known about and allowed to happen to get us into the war. now i was a lil buzzed, and when i heard this dude say those words, i rather belligerently said "WHAT? WHATS THAT AGAIN?" and put my hand theatrically to my ear, interrupting the other conversations at the table. when he answered again, i said THANK YOU and stood up and shook his hand...i know i made an ass of myself, but what the hell: at least i didnt kill 3000 people, you know...

anotherdrew · Post by **anotherdrew** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:40 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Two or three weeks later having dinner with a lawyer friend, who told me about his client, Delmart Vreeland, his frustrated efforts over the summer to get authorities to pay attention to Vreeland's warning, and the sealing of "Let one happen, stop the rest."<hr></blockquote> you had lunch with Vreeland's lawyer? by accident? have you written about this elsewhere? on edit found this: <a href="http://www.dirtfiles.com/archives/2005-06-29/The-rigorous-interview-part-one.html">www.dirtfiles.com/archive...t-one.html</a> I've said before, 5-10mins after hearing on the radio what was up, the thought that ran though my mind was, "oh damn, the bushgang took remote control of those planes" - I still think that's highly probable. Also when I was very young and the towers had been open only a few years, I remember asking my mom, "isn't it dangerous to build a building so tall, a plane could hit them..." no she said, the planes know where the buildings are and they wont make such a mistake, to which I replied, "but what if they do it on purpose?" Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=anotherdrew>anotherdrew</A> at: 6/23/06 7:59 pm

SwineForkbeard · Post by **SwineForkbeard** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:27 pm

I would have to say it was after I saw an article in the Boston Globe a few days later which quoted some of the witnesses in Pennsylvania who saw flight 93 crash and described the jet that had been following it. I wish I had kept that article, because the Globe later scrubbed it from their archives. It was strange how the last paragraph seemed to have been grafted on to deter the reader from the conclusion any rational person would reach considering the witnesses' statements. Kurt Weldon asserted that, clearly, the passengers had fought back and brought the plane down themselves, when everything in the article prior to that implied otherwise.

dude h homeslice ix · Post by **dude h homeslice ix** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:48 am

postscript: i later told the kid that, since we are now occupying a couple strategic-as-all-get-out countries as a result of 911 and the resulting war on terror, that he must be willing to entertain the possibility that 911 was also LIHOP at least. he agreed. somewhere between MIHOP and LIHOP is IHOP. international towers that fall perfectly, fluffy, flat as pancakes.

HMKGrey · Post by **HMKGrey** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:34 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>now i was a lil buzzed, and when i heard this dude say those words, i rather belligerently said "WHAT? WHATS THAT AGAIN?" and put my hand theatrically to my ear, interrupting the other conversations at the table. when he answered again, i said THANK YOU and stood up and shook his hand...i know i made an ass of myself, but what the hell: at least i didnt kill 3000 people, you know...<hr></blockquote> Hey Homeslice: that really made me laugh because I know exactly what you mean and how that happened. My wife will sometimes warn me before we go over to friends' that I'm to watch my talk because I too will leap on the slightest glimmer... the problem of course is that Americans don't generally talk about politics at all, so truth in general, never mind 911 truth has a snowball in Hell's chance to begin with. But do know that I share your pain and occasional buzzed embarassment!

juno jones · Post by **juno jones** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:28 am

The night before (9/10) I had sat down to watch 'the damned', a (great highly reccomended!) movie which chronicles the reichstag fire and the rise of the nazis. I woke up at 5 or 6 in the morning ( I was PST, so about the time it was going down in NYC) to the sound of a massive explosion. Nothing seemed amiss at home and my husband was still asleep. Figuring it was a dream, I went back to sleep and woke up around 9, stumbled onto the internet and found out what was going on. After the movie the night before, I was in no mood to accept the 'official story'. I was reading a lot of conspiracy websites like 'surfing the apocalpse' and 'godlike productions' at the time as well so I was a little cynical of TPTB, to say the least. I remember those first days and how alone I felt in my conclusions. All my co-workers were totally sucked in and I couldn't discuss it with any of them, even the hippie new age ones who will usually at least discuss anything weird. It's actually downright scary that so much that was considered 'crackpot theory' even 5 years ago is being proven to be real. I used to read this stuff tongue-in-cheek, almost for the thrill of scaring myself. Now I don't know why I read it anymore. Guess it must be a masochistic streak...or those damn opioids they're finding out about these days that addict your brain to reading and processing information constantly for the buzz...

Et in Arcadia ego · Post by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:05 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>or those damn opioids they're finding out about these days that addict your brain to reading and processing information constantly for the buzz...<hr></blockquote> Is that what's been wrong with me?

sunny · Post by **sunny** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:17 pm

One of the networks called Florida for Gore. Bush gets on the teevee and tells everyone Florida is not a done deal, his brother says so. I tell my kids "They're gonna grab it, steal it." The rhetoric, from Baker et al, was agressive and threatening in the days following. The Brooks Brothers' rioters, the protesters shouting "Sore Loserman!" the presumption in favor of Bush in the media; it all seemed inevitable. When he finally "won" I told my kids "Something bad is going to happen. They will do something horrible to usher in a dictatorship." When the second plane hit and it was obvious this was no accident, I was at work, we had turned on the tv in the backroom. I told my co-workers "Now Bush will get everything he wants. He'll be the only winner in this whole mess. He has done this thing." People listened to me, but they didn't have anything to say. I postulated Martial Law immediately, and I was wrong about that, but not much else. Study of the Kenedy assassination will do that to a person- there comes a certain knowledge that this particular group of people are capable of anything.

greencrow0 · Post by **greencrow0** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:07 pm

<a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jd@rigorousintuition">p216.ezboard.com/brigorou...sintuition</a> That's been one of the sub-texts of the 9/11 Search for the Truth Movement. The 'missing in action' nature of individuals who, by way of their education and scientific mindset should have been at the forefront of debunking the Official Version. With the exception, of course of notables like Dr. Stephen Jones of BYU. Regarding your engineer friend, who when first contemplating the story, said it 'couldn't have happened that way' but, later when he 'watched it on TV' swallowed the OV hook, line and sinker...that's what I have found as well. My father is an engineer and when I sent him some links and tried to get him interested in the conundrum, he totally shut down! Even though my father has always been somewhat of a radical. But he simply wouldn't apply his knowledge and scientific principles to the problem...he wouldn't! I think it has something to do with the way engineers are educated in the universities. They are always the most ribald group on campus...but I think that's just a way of brainwashing them to fall into line later on in life and 'serve the state'. Don't know quite how it works but enginners always fade into the woodwork after university, GC

Mentalgongfu · Post by **Mentalgongfu** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:02 pm

My 9-11 moment: I can’t put my finger on exactly when I became sure of government involvement, but I had a keen sense something was wrong right away, which was solidified as I learned about PNAC, stand-down orders, and all the myriad strands of intrigue surrounding Sept. 11, 2001. I was in college at the time. I woke up right before class, about 9:15 Central time, but as I headed out the door a friend stopped me in the common area of the dorm and asked if I had seen the news. I hadn’t, and he told me to sit down in front of the TV. I don’t remember the exact sequence of events as portrayed on television, but I do recall after the 2nd tower was hit, or maybe it was the Pentagon, saying to my friend what a crazy day it was going to be and that I expected shit to go down all over the country. I imagined planes crashing or bombs exploding from Pittsburgh to Seattle. After all, America was under attack, the TV said. But nothing else really happened . . . and the mainstream news kept droning away, and people were glued to their screens, and everyone was pumped up on fear and anger and shock. I was generally accepting the 19 hijackers story, though I doubt it now. I didn’t even think about how all the ‘evidence’ and photos was gathered so quickly. I remember my girlfriend at the time was enraged. She was kind of a fundamentalist Christian, which is far from where I am, and she was going on about the stories of Palestinians (or other feared Muslims) celebrating in the streets. I pointed out the hijackers probably believed they were doing the right thing in the name of God and would go to heaven, and she got really mad and said, “Well, they’re wrong. They’re going to burn in Hell.” That moment summed up pretty well what I saw happening. Everyone was angry and self-righteous and unquestioning, and that attitude still carries on today among a large segment of the population. I didn’t go to any classes that day. Later, got drunk with my friends and sang songs. That night and days later, you could still taste the tension in the air. A communication professor, one who helped me quite a bit in the study of rhetoric and propaganda, kept saying things like “you’ll remember this time for the rest of your lives” and remarking vaguely on the importance of what was now happening. He’s a smart guy and former anti-nuclear power activist. I wonder now if he was alluding to something most of us didn’t then see. I was a columnist for the college paper, and I wrote an article on my thoughts shortly thereafter. It was kind of a Vonnegut-inspired fictionalization which was blatantly obvious as a description of current events. It was intended as a series, but I never finished it. If I have a “9/11 moment,” it’s probably the end of this column, as I saw the event being used to bring the public into an orgiastic war frenzy and launch American military “intervention” into strategic Middle East nations. <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Published November 14, 2001. Mother, should I trust the government? -It’s all about perspective- Long ago and far away, in a parallel universe on the edge of a galaxy there was a planet ruled by two-legged creatures. On this planet was a great and powerful nation which so large that it touched two oceans. The leader of this state was a bit on the dumb side. In fact, he was a bumbling idiot. The rest of the world did not understand how such a powerful nation could have such a clumsy, dim-witted leader. He was always bumping into coffee tables and pedestals and knocking over expensive imported glass lamps as he stumbled around his castle. Whenever he spoke in public the people laughed at his funny made-up words like “relevelationciveness” and “conjimminny” On top of his stupidity, some people didn’t believe the Leader had been elected fairly, and they doubted his ability to rule effectively. But he did have hundreds of highly intelligent folks working with him at the Round Table. He lowered the country’s tariffs, so people generally liked, or at least tolerated him. Things had gone relatively well in the nation for a long time. They had ups and downs, wartime and peacetime, but many had prospered over the years. There were a significant number of dirt-poor citizens, but few ever gave them a chance or a care. Most were too busy to think about the less fortunate, or just chose not to. It was amazing that they could ignore serious problems like starvation but could drone on endlessly about the complexities of their meaningless lives. This was partially because they were conceited, and partially because they were really screwed up. Pretty much everyone suffered from severe emotional problems brought on my major childhood trauma. Everyone used drugs. People ingested caffeine for energy and took pills to give themselves erections. Children took drugs that made them behave. People drank themselves into alcoholic stupors. Some drugs were illegal, even though almost everybody used them, including the government, and much of the population was imprisoned for possessing them. There was a lot of greed in the nation. The poor and downtrodden resorted to crime because they had nothing to eat and nothing to live for. The rich and powerful stole and killed because they wanted everything. Many religions were practiced, but in truth the most oft worshipped deity was gold. The nation was in a very troubled state indeed. It was rich in wealth but unhappiness blossomed from the seeds of its money. Despite the lengthy list of problems, the nation and the majority of its people got by with a decent living and a general satisfaction with life. Sure, they bitched and moaned a lot, but they knew they had it pretty good. Then came the day that the bad thing happened. A tribe of militant seafaring rebels led a surprise attack on the coastal city of Norkwey. Early in the morning as a heavy fog rolled across the harbor, three warships took position. From their ships they fired enormous cannonballs that leveled the Village Market in the center of town. The townspeople awoke to the thunderous roar of cannonballs and chaos and were sorely scared and confused. That day the Leader sent out a proclamation across the land. It read: “Many of our people have been killed in this heinous and cowardly attack. Its wrong to kill, and the perpetrators must be punished. Therefore we will retaliate by cannonballing our enemy back to the Stone Age.” It seemed true that the nation could not be passive, could not simply wait for another surprise attack. But trading cannonball for cannonball was not likely to bring peace and would certainly cause more destruction. When ignorant people began to question the value of a counter-attack, the Leader decided to add a sentence to the proclamation so that even a child could understand it. It read: “P.S. Don’t forget, They started it!” So it was that the nation entered into a new war. To be continued. . . <hr></blockquote> Of course, I never continued the story, but the Bush administration, or the PTB if you prefer, continued the plan for “Pax Americana” regardless . The hypocrisy of America’s “shoot first, ask questions later” foreign policy has been recognized and pointed out by greater minds and nimbler tongues than mine, but the orgiastic war frenzy prompted by 9-11 and the constant fear of terrorism is itself a form of mind control. I sensed it washing over the country then, and these days it has become a normal hum in the background. BTW, whatever happened to that color-coded terror alert thing? Haven’t seen it in a while, but election time is coming up. As a sidenote, I had a plan to turn the above piece into a story of soldiers who eat the hearts of their enemies. It was to be a four-part series, I believe. Wrote some outlines, but never pulled it together, though I continued to write columns for each issue of the paper. In a bout of synchronicity, I later heard a report somewhere (NPR, probably) of another author who had written a similar story line, that is, about soldiers eating the hearts of their enemies in bizarre rituals. As Homer Simpson might say, "Mmmmm, metaphorical . . . "

Attack Ships on Fire · Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:59 pm

For myself, it wasn't a specific moment when I started to question the official 9/11 story, but if I had to nail it down, it would have to be the British reports that some of the 9/11 hijackers were alive and living elsewhere in the world. Has that story ever been debunked by the FBI? Little by little, more irregularities began to pile up, and one day about half-a-year ago, I spent a week watching every Google video about the subject. There are a number of pieces of evidence that greatly shake up the official 9/11 story, but I'm not an expert in engineering or physics. When things look odd and you get a gut feeling, chances are there is something suspicious about it, and that's what I get from viewing all of the 9/11 evidence I've seen so far. Nevertheless, a gut feeling can still be wrong. What we need at this stage is a serious examination of all of the counter 9/11 theories and so-called facts (such as whether the 9/11 hijackers are indeed all dead or not) so we know precisely where we stand. "Loose Change" is a great documentary in the regard that it tries to encapsulate many counter 9/11 theories and present them in a compelling, entertaining fashion, but it still is a project limited by its meager budget as well as containing factual errors (such as misidentifying what bomber flew into the Empire State building.) Ideally the creator of "Loose Change" should work on a third edition, adding new information as it comes to light, weeding out theories that have lesser support for their validity (like the theory that it was a missle that slammed into the Pentagon) and fixing all known errors from earlier editions. Get some funding to follow up on some of the counter 9/11 theories that deserve to be checked out, such as whether it's true Flight 93 touched down in Cleveland that day. Then do a fourth edition, and a fifth, and so on, continually improving the documentation and research. Every release can build the momentum for this movement, and it can be used as a continually evolving document that challenges any criticism levelled against it. "Loose Change" is the best known piece of work out there, but for my money those videos taken by the Jersey filmmaker across the water have some major weight behind them ("9/11 Eyewitness".) If the videos and their audio can be independently confirmed, it could be a major piece of evidence that the WTC buildings were brought down by controlled explosions. Right now all questions that the skeptic in me has about the authenticity of the videos, such as the authenticity of "booms" recorded before the buildings started to fall, need to be addressed, confirmed and then publicized if they're found to be authentic. The amount of fake UFO video evidence is all the proof my skeptical side needs that the same kind of deception can be created for counter 9/11 evidence. Here's a link to the Google Videos for "9/11 Eyewitness": <a href="http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=9%2F11+eyewitness">video.google.com/videosea...eyewitness</a>

Joe Hillshoist · Post by **Joe Hillshoist** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:14 am

Which 911 moment?, oh that first one. In eastern Australia the attacks happened at midnight. Next morning, between 6 and 7 am I flicked the tv on for noise to keep me awake, and to watch a cartoon show DragonballZ. Instead the bullshit was happening. The whole thing seemed surreal, but the moment that chrystalised it into complete Reichstag bullshit was when I heard that one of the hijackers passports had been found in the rubble. This was still before 9 am. Aust est. That was just too hard to take seriously. They found his passport in the rubble. Of course they did. But for some reason there were two bits of music that had kept spinning me out for the 3 months before the attack, one was anything from Micheal Franti's record of the time. The other was a bit of hip hop ego tripping from Mark B and BLade. "You don't see the signs because you're blind. You're running out of time. Im losing my mind and its a Crime." For some reason hearing that song before sept 11th, those lyrics specifically, made my hackles raise. Funnily enough just about every response by the US Governement or my own post 911 has also made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

wintler · Post by **wintler** » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:48 am

I happened to be up for the event (Aus midnight), first thing i said was said 'god help us all' to the pal who dragged me to a tv. But i didn't twig to the sum of the impossibilities, not for weeks and weeks, and it was only the rock-solid disinterest of all my supposedly alternative/activist friends that made me go over and over the material. There i was, working on a very progressive independent newspaper, knowing all sorts of people who supposedly were alert to the lies of money and power, and nearly nobody could admit that it just didn't add up. And we couldn't publish anything casting doubt on the received wisdom, cos that would ruin our credibility, see, so the groupthink went. I was quite literally going nuts with the dissonance, and it wasn't till Jeffs 'Coincidence Theorist' list came out that i looked into leftffield and started to understand our infinite ability to deceive ourselves, and that was my penny-drop moment. Now of course, after a few years reading RI, crossed with zealous but unsuccessful efforts to falsify peak oil, i doubt i'll ever be fit for decent society (eg. dinner with my extended family) again, but hey, its their loss (i still enjoy putting the wind up them individually, but enmass they just shout me down).

rigorousintuition.ca

What was your 911 moment?

Re: On 9/11 when Bush 1st appeared on TV

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slow learner