Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby Nordic » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:30 pm

Jack, I've said it before, but considering you are one of the most prominent posters here at RI, you show a surprisingly conservative slant to your outlook.

Are you arguing that the 9/11 guy being interviewed is NOT a plant?

Because I noticed you avoided that aspect of my OP.

If we take it as a given that the 9/11 guy is a plant, then we can assume beyond a shadow of a doubt that there would be other plants at other psyop mass-media events.

The woman in the first video I posted is most definitely the same woman. I photograph people for a living. I photograph actors for a living. I work with them all the time, I light their faces. I am a visual person, an artist, a photographer, and am extremely confident of my abilities in this regard. That woman is the same in the two videos.

In the second video I posted, they show her again, but then they BARELY show her in the second instance of her being interviewed (at the shooting), and then they throw in two other women who are most certainly NOT her just to muddy the waters.

Which means they're either Just Fucking Stupid or they are creating a limited hangout. Maybe they're Just Fucking Stupid. . Certainly when they post videos like this, a lot of Just Fucking Stupid people take the bait and run with it and create more of these dumbass videos for all the other people on the left-hand-side of the Bell Curve.

This is handy because the PTB want to be able to point to dumb-ass videos and whatnot and say "SEE that's what those crazy tinfoil hat people believe!"

And yes, duh, it's POSSIBLE (as I said above) that that woman in Boston JUST SO HAPPENED to be interviewed by the national news media at BOTH events. If it were a small town of, say, 12,000 people I wouldn't think twice about it, but this is Boston. It's kinda big.

So given that the guy in the 911 video is clearly a plant, and the woman from Boston is most certainly the same woman, and the odds are extremely low that she would have happened to have been at both events AND interviewed by the media both times, I'd say this is something worth talking about at THIS PARTICULAR FORUM.

It's the kind of stuff we talk about.

And most of us like to talk about.

One thing I've learned since 9/11 is that I will keep an open mind about these people because they are capable of anything. They are capable of doing the UNTHINKABLE. In fact, I've realized that's how evil takes over the world, by doing the unthinkable. "Who would do such a thing?"

And learning about Edward Bernays and his whole history, we should all realize that these people are WAY WAY ahead of almost all of us. They got a good head start from, oh, the 1920's up until the end of the second world war where they truly took power and got their massive spending budgets and their black money and their bottomless pits of power.

So I keep an open mind.
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:46 pm

One thing I've learned since 9/11 is that I will keep an open mind about these people because they are capable of anything. They are capable of doing the UNTHINKABLE. In fact, I've realized that's how evil takes over the world, by doing the unthinkable. "Who would do such a thing?"


I think that not only is this true, but it is the fundamental working premise of people involved in false flags of all descriptions. They are designed for people who think "Who would do such a thing?". I remember Catherine Fitts saying that the vast majority of intelligent, decent people she encountered could not think of their own government doing something like a false flag against them. And the degree of cynicism and sociopathy required to violently use this very fact against them speaks to the mentality the originators have. True Political Ponerology territory.
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:50 pm

Catherine Austin Fitts, who is older and smarter than me, "served as managing director and member of the board of directors of the Wall Street investment bank Dillon, Read & Co. Inc., as Assistant Secretary of Housing and Federal Housing[2] Commissioner at the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development in the first Bush Administration."

That is to say, C.A. Fitts worked in the principle criminal industry of the country, Wall Street, and then took a job in the administration of one of the biggest villains in U.S. history, Bush the father. Then the Bush mob screwed her, and she was shocked to find out the obvious, that bad guys are in control. Why didn't she figure this out back when the same gangster state (under earlier management) was murdering millions of people in Indochina?

Since I am actually charitable in my explanations, my explanation is that she had been naive, as millions of loyal servants to the system have always been naive. She believed all the America bullshit and capitalist system bullshit into which we almost all have been brainwashed as children. She still does, in different form. For whatever reason -- again, she is older and smarter than me -- I had ceased to believe the bullshit at a much earlier age, thus precluding my own potential career as a naive system apparatchik reaching for the brass ring, exactly as society trained me to do.

9/11 as inside job (which is to say: a remote-orchestrated event, not necessarily fully produced by a Hollywood studio working for the CIA) has never seemed exotic or unthinkable to me, because it makes eminent sense, and because it's got so much precedent. It would have had a function -- many obvious functions. It would have allowed exactly the revolution in the security state and global imperialist policy that the (election stealing) Bush regime and its neocon allies intended to enact.

In the same way the Gulf of Tonkin had a function, and the Moscow 9/99 apartment bombings that brought Putin to power had a function, and the "Strategy of Tension" as applied around the world has a function. It's the kind of thing you see over and over in banana republics, translated to the grander scale of a banana empire. Americans do not generally think such plots are "conspiracy theory" if only they are claimed to happen in Russia, or Iran, or Iraq.

9/11 had a function, and if done right, it was low risk to the masterminds. This is why there's no doubt it would have been done via assisted LIHOP, without a cast of thousands of fake victims or all the other insane and superfluous add-ons that the Untruthers have imagined, like "Harley guy."

Of course "Harley guy" was not a plant. What he said is exactly what many millions of people were thinking at that moment, exactly what I was also thinking: that there was some kind of structural reason for collapse caused by the plane impacts and subsequent fires. Even if a demolition had been done, arranging a fake "Harley guy" would have been incredibly stupid and superfluous. It has no function. It serves no purpose, nefarious or otherwise. It just adds another guy who knows shit that he shouldn't, saying shit that someone else will also say.

It doesn't matter how much evil "they" are capable of doing, blah blah blah. "They" need to have a motive. You can't just devise any scenario that seems evil to you (even though it makes absolutely no sense!) and attribute it to "them" on the basis of your belief that "they" must have done it because they're evil and you thought of it and now you can't unthink it.

If there was a propaganda plant in this, then it might have been whoever was the first to suggest that "Harley guy" was a plant. That makes a lot more sense. Because, unlike "Harley guy," this would have had a function: to make 9/11 truth look really, really stupid, as well as to take the focus off any trail that could expose the coverup (such as the 9/11 commission documents that Kevin Fenton eventually used to expose what actually happened, not that Untruthers care or even have a clue that Kevin Fenton did this). Pointing to "Harley guy" is occupying our time with utter trivia. It's also a very low risk strategy for disrupting a movement.

Same idea with this random civilian lady who is now being targeted by you. You can't come up with a reason why whatever "They" you think was behind the Boston bombing would ever bother to engage in this. If the Boston attack was a false-flag, then all it needed was a real bomb and a patsy -- preferably a patsy actually set up to do the bombing! The best patsy believes he acted on his own. Then there are no loose ends. Such a conspiracy is compact, effective, safe, deniable, insulated, and simple relative to what is being claimed here.

You can't come up with any reason why they need an actor to serve as a fake witness to a real bomb set off in a place with thousands of people, or why they would deploy this actor again during the subsequent police manhunt that covered a neighborhood. Why aren't the real bystanders to a real bomb and a real manhunt good enough? Why on earth would masterminds recruit unnecessary conspirators?

With thousands of people watching the marathon, and then thousands of people living in the area of the manhunt, and with hundreds of media crews all over both events, it means absolutely nothing that the same woman might have been present and interviewed at both events. You, Nordic, may be smart about film technology but you apparently do not understand probability, in this case the (very high) likelihood that a search after the fact will eventually find usable correlations, allowing such scenarios to be constructed, assuming someone wants to construct such scenarios in the first place.

I also wonder if you have an empathic deficit of some kind, for failing to see how most people are likely to react when they see that some random lady on the street is being accused of being part of the Boston bombing plot. If they were ever open to the idea of a false flag, they will stop when they see this, and say: these people (the "conspiracy theorists") are heartless bastards harrassing some random traumatized lady, a victim, as if she was a criminal.

That is one reason it is far more suspicious that some helpful Untruther found video footage of this woman from the two film crews at the two events, and fashioned this video for the naive. I don't actually think that the video maker is a plant, because it's already been many years since a cult-like culture of post-reality took hold among the Untruthers, originally finding its classic form with Nico Haupt and the "no-planes" theory.

But again, if someone is a plant, it's not the lady, it's the video maker, because the latter would actually be serving a function for "them". He's contributing to the general state of confusionism that makes all statements suspect, that casts doubt on the validity of all evidence, and thus makes it impossible to expose genuine criminal activity by the government, corporations, or establishment (because every such assertion comes to smell like bullshit).

I can think of only one idea that's almost as absurd as the "crisis actors" theory as applied to "Harley Guy" and the poor Boston lady, or the poor Newtown families. It's not quite as ridiculous, but it shows a similar pattern of thought. It was promoted by a once-prolific RI poster, Hugh Manatee Wins, whom many people here decided must be an intentional disinfo artist muddying the waters. He has a name for his schtick, he called it Keyword Hijacking.
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby KUAN » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:19 pm

^^^

If there was a propaganda plant in this, then it might have been whoever was the first to suggest that "Harley guy" was a plant


I don’t know, but…
Words are so powerful that it is important to get them out into the either first. If you say it first the words have extraordinary momentum - so it’s worth doing.
Any think tank will tell you that
The Harley Guy’s words just sound so stilted to me - like getting your script out there first.
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby MayDay » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:19 pm

The conversation between Jack and Nordic sounds like the debate going on in my head. The two of you have been in my head for a long time, so I gUess that's okay. Jack's voice is making the most sense as usual, no offence Nordic
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby MayDay » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:26 pm

Now back to watering the tomatos, and forgetting to wonder why I still bother to follow this forum. Ho hum.
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:09 pm

OK. So there has been yet another mass shooting and it just so happens to be a block from where I live. (So I guess I pay rent tomorrow). I ain't stepping into that hive.

However. . .

There has been one woman interviewed on multiple networks. She seems too calm. I don't recognize her. That IS possible. But I walk up and down that area daily. Within 10 minutes of the shooting she was calm and good to go on one network and now she appears to have modified her emotional approach on another network. Could be nothing. But with thousands of students on campus, why is she so readily available and the "go-to"? I don't know how this shit works, but there's that. Her name was Claire (something).
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:32 pm

FWIW I watched some of the CNN interviews with people who had been shot at Santa Barbara and found several of the people interviewed very very incongruent. I grew up witnessing many many reports on the TV in Belfast of people who had been near bomb explosions, shootings etc There is a type of visceral connection established with the listener - and this was glaringly absent from many of the interviews. I wondered if 70s Ireland is culturally so *that* different from 2015 SoCal that the reactions would be so divergent - and my intuition says 'No, not THAT different'.

Go to 45:42 in this video and watch for a few minutes for interviews of people who had just witnessed Bloody Sunday.
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby km artlu » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:05 am

Re Harley Guy:
You're right, Nordic.
You're wrong, Jack.
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby Nordic » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:42 pm

Jack, I suppose your opinion of yourself is so high that you, whoever the fuck you really are (but apparently compares yourself to Shakespeare),would actually KNOW what their motives are.

Like they'd be obvious. Please.

It took you how many words to say what again?

And I'm actually pretty good at math, and for that same woman to be interviewed at both locations and times is pretty damned unlikely. Unless she was some kind of "go-to" person.

You forget that the media's job is to produce content for their bosses, not actually provide a public service.

But gosh, how boring, JR and Nordic arguing again. Because I have an open mind and he does not.
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby Sounder » Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:37 pm

How about Carlos Arredondo, does he qualify as a crisis actor




The second person in Rogers beemer seems indicative of some level of scripting.

as you say nordic;
You forget that the media's job is to produce content for their bosses, not actually provide a public service.


There is always demand for content to maintain this twisted narrative.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby Elvis » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:19 pm

Until this thread, I had never seen the longer "Harley guy" clip with the guy in the suit lurking behind him, the same guy who a little later ushers the reporter away from the sidewalk (the purpose of which is not clear), and who tells the reporter, "I'm just standing by...I can't say what my role out here is." "Standing by"? The guy is obviously LE of some kind but I wonder who he is and what his role there was.

Setting aside the more absurd hoax allegations, I think it's a good idea to be on the lookout for "crisis actors" popping up where they shouldn't. It's a fact of course that they're used in training, but considering the degree to which perception management is the name of the game these days, expanded crisis actor 'deployment' for nefarious trickery seems inevitable.

The Boston woman gives me pause, but some people just like to be on TV, and maybe she knows a local news producer or something. You know who she reminds me of? -- the woman in the notorious "nasty n*****" video shot the other day in the parking lot outside a store. Same person? Internet detectives, to work!
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby barracuda » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:02 am

Facial and body mapping

What is it?
Imagery relating to a crime is frequently of a quality that requires interpretation to assist the courts in cases of disputed identity.

Facial mapping, (also referred to as Facial comparison), is the comparison of two of more images (photographic, video or otherwise) of individuals to determine whether or not they are of the same person. (Other body parts, as appropriate, may also be examined in a similar fashion).

What can it do and what are its limitations?
The quality of the imagery available for examination inherently dictates the scope of the examination and ultimately the weight of the conclusion.

Because of inherent limitations of detail, facial mapping cannot be used to conclusively identify someone. It is recognised that two people can share similar facial proportions and morphology. Indeed, on poor quality material it can be difficult to distinguish between two people of similar appearance.

In the absence of any significant differences, rather than providing conclusive identification evidence, this evidence can be a powerful corroborative tool, giving support to other existing evidence and assisting the court in extracting the maximum amount of information from the imagery available.

The discovery of a single difference that cannot be otherwise explained can exclude someone as a candidate for a suspect.

Our experts combine their anatomical and imagery interpretation expertise to produce expert reports and provide expert testimony on behalf of prosecution or defence agents.

Methodologies
There are 3 comparative tests are generally held to be valid for imagery comparisons of facial features:

- Photogrammetry (sometimes referred to as photo-anthropometry) involves comparing the spatial proportions of facial features and if possible, measurements of distances and angles between facial landmarks are taken in an attempt to quantify any differences/similarities,

- Morphological examination involves describing the shape and form of facial features. The method is based upon subjective judgments of facial features,

- Superimposition (of one image upon another) involves wiping, fading or flickering from one video image to another.

The imagery available for examination dictates which of these tests can meaningfully be conducted and elimination is the fundamental aim of the process at all stages.

How are conclusions expressed?
It is not possible to quantify the likelihood of two images being of the same person, in the absence of significant differences, an accepted scale is used by practitioners in this field (endorsed by the Forensic Imagery Analysis Group FIAG):

    Lends no support
    Lends limited support
    Lends moderate support
    Lends support
    Lends strong support
    Lends powerful support

At present there is no database, which records the incidence of specific features as they appear in the population. This scale of conclusions therefore does not have any statistical foundation. Rather, it is an expression of subjective opinion, informed by experience.



Here's the resume of a qualified forensic face mapping expert:
Mr David Anley

Primary Areas of Expertise

Forensic Imagery Analysis
Face Mapping / Facial comparison
Photogrammetric Measurement and Analysis
Clothing Comparison
Height Assessment
CCTV & video enhancement and analysis
Forensic Vehicle Identification
VRM assessment
Vehicle Comparison
Weapons Identification and Analysis
Event Analysis
Aerial Imagery analysis
Expert Witness Service
Experience

David qualified as an Imagery Analyst from the Joint School of Photographic Interpretation in 1995. He then served as a Intelligence Imagery Analyst at the Joint Air Reconnaissance Intelligence Centre, RAF Brampton. While in this post, David was involved in comparison and contrast of various objects utilising optical, electro-optical, infrared and radar imagery.

Following his retirement from the army, David held the post of Senior Consultant in Imagery Analysis at a highly-regarded, London-based forensic services company. He worked on over 700 cases accepting instructions from both the prosecution and defence and has given evidence in court as an Expert Witness on more than 100 cases. For most of these cases David has acted as expert witness in the Central Criminal Court.

Notable cases include:

R -v- Levi Bellfield
R -v- Lee Rusha and Others (Securitas Robbery, 2006)
R -v- Kart and Kart
Graff Jewellery Robbery, 2009
Memberships

Forensic Science Society
Brisith Association for Human Identification (BAHID)
Forensic Imagery Analysis Group (FIAG)
Teaching Commitments

David was appointed Chief Instructor at the Joint School of Photographic Interpretation in 2001 and is currently a guest lecturer on forensic imagery analysis at the University of Kent.




Image

These two pictures are not of the same woman. Really, the resemblance is cursory. Look at the contour of the jawline, the distance from the lower lip to the tip of the chin, the shape of the chin and nose, and the curve of the nasolabial fold. Not a match, in my honest inexpert opinion. But I realize one can convince oneself of just about anything with a little effort. Maybe somebody's trying to incite a pandemic of Fregoli's by proxy.

Image
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby Nordic » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:37 pm

The 2 women are the same. I do this shit for a living and I also draw photo realistically. I can draw both of these women's faces and I can tell you they are the same woman. In the teo thumbnails you posted the lighting is different, the color of the light is different, and the position of the mouths are different. Maybe that's what's throwing you off.

Also their voices are the same.

You are free to disagree but I know I'm right. And you're wrong. The two Obama's are insulting to anyone with a fucking brain. So why are you posting those?
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Re: Can we start a new "crisis actor" thread?

Postby barracuda » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:36 pm

Nah, I gotta go with, "Lends limited support".

Nordic wrote: I do this shit for a living and I also draw photo realistically. I can draw both of these women's faces and I can tell you they are the same woman.


Hey, I'm a good drawer too.

What do you mean you do this shit for a living? Forensic face mapping? That's not what the IMDB says.

C'mon, the Twobama's are way cool. Mostly because, you just know there's, like, nine of 'em around. Good ones, though.
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